Liam

I know Zapp, he's just human I don't know you Sarge nor have I ever played you. Play in the league, dependant on attitudes, immaturity? Well, hell, we're all boys. I hate to say it no matter how much we try to avoid the fact it's all a game. No reason to step on someones feelings, or lose your cool. Though of course everyone does it. So what, who cares. Relax, breath, and play more SC I have a anger management issue myself. I have had to learn not to get angry. "Need to get better at SC to take it out on all you players who've continually pounded me!!!!!!!!"

Liam's thoughts on the Subject: Zapp's a good guy. Sometimes people get rubbed the wrong way. I think that we don't want to emphasize how important feelings/good sportsmanship are with all sorts of people. Sometimes they get stepped on, sometimes someone is right or a little bit right but their point is lost in Anger and Fustration. Reality of it all is, I've been there, I think we all have been. So you know, just chill, let it go and hell with it. Not worth fighting a pointless War On another note, you all need to just remeber you're human we yell, we scream, we poop, lordy, what else do we do? Humans, Errrr, Kinda a funny creature No?

Liam's thoughts on the Subject: Zapp's a good guy. Sometimes people get rubbed the wrong way. I think that we don't want to emphasize how important feelings/good sportsmanship are with all sorts of people. Sometimes they get stepped on, sometimes someone is right or a little bit right but their point is lost in Anger and Fustration. Reality of it all is, I've been there, I think we all have been. So you know, just chill, let it go and hell with it. Not worth fighting a pointless War On another note, you all need to just remeber you're human we yell, we scream, we poop, lordy, what else do we do? Humans, Errrr, Kinda a funny creature No?

A bit off the road from Strategic to Hugely Tactical detail! However, the idea of many different aspects of intel and espionage are good. How to incorporate them into a simple yet effective system for some future SC is up to Hubert. Give him ideas that're useful. I think the entire MPP expenditure toward Intelligence would rock. Including everything from Radio to Spies. Making a Panzer appear off Calais until you investigate it and found it, "HEY look, Mr. Churchill that's on Panzer it's a bunch of trucks with plaster shaped turrets on top!" English used this extensively in N.Africa and England During D-Day Invasions to Maximum effectiveness

What about the Coastal Fortifications<the Atlantic Wall had a heck of lot of concrete and Guns in it, probably a crapload more than Gibraltar-Maginot-Malta-Sevastopol combined>, I know that's going a bit detailed but even a Historical Option to erect Atlantic Wall for a certian MPP cost would rock. That way you could post your Corps and other Units off the Coast and not stress to death about Air/Naval bombardment Combo utterly Destroying them. I would take a lot more thought to do an invasion like D-Day or Sea Lion.

Heh, at least your Fighting SeaMonkey! That's the spirit. You may not have a chance in hell in comming back but send 3 or 4 corps into Berlin! who knows

I'd like to Whine about the fact I can't get any other B-Rated players to play me! You know what it's like to play Rambo/Terif/Avatar/Dragonheart all day long??? I just deleted 20 saves of other players that never finished halfway through cause I was winning! BAHHHHHH WAHHHHHHH Wussies... I have collectively more losses than anyone on a league...I'm not whining! Damned well, shutup and finish your games Jim! "Beam me up Scotty!" "Eye, Eye Sir!"

Wow, all this SC2 talk I'm quite hyped. You learn to be patient for a good game!

Edwin: Where is Shaka, we do need his point of view. I once opened up a World Map, in a WW2 history book to see every place that a Allied Convoy and Axis Sub was sunk, they were marked in dots. Lord! It was quite extensive... I never realized until then just how much those bloody little boats got around...would really be nice if subs were cheaper and less effective vs Surface ships. I'd love to throw dozens of them against the N.Atlantic and force the Brits to do something with their navy besides hunt the Italian or Pound German Corps off the Coast of France and Holland

When I first started playing the Demo I had a very very hard time with France. Then on to Barbarossa the AI proved to be quite a trick for about 3 or 4 days. You can get a good 10 games outta the AI maybe even 15

Terif Mr Legend <where the hell have you been!> is so right about this. Whenever I throw Ireland my Axis are Toast before France... Allies throw a volley of air up against me and I go cold in France most of the time

If I were you I'd be tempted to find a cheap HardDrive at a Flea market or Used Parts store, install 98 on it and run it seperately through the BIOS as a second OS and HD on the same computer. Sounds like a big hassle but in the end you'll likely pull less hair out then trying to figure out why your XP is giving you a headache. Could be Video, Sound, or another Driver conflict that is just super special, could be something very simple.

Edwin: Under such rules Subs would be quite kewl. The whole supply aspect would make them a fun unit<important too>. Now I use subs like Destroyers as support vessels after the first 2 raiders are eaten. They're just to easily spotted and for 300plus MPPs per Sub Unit too expensive to waste on the whole Royal Navy going after them for the return in MPP damage you get. Subs lost there value with technology and Spotters... So it wouldn't take long or much investment for the UK and USA to subdue the threat. Your system of spotting accurately depicts that<though if US and UK anti-raiding technology never got lucky dice I know a few players who would be spitting>

Friendly Fire: ? Even in SC now a real D-Day does a lot better with those American Armies and an American HQ... Possibly even a 2nd American HQ with 2 or 3 Fighters. In fact most Allies do not attempt a D-Day without those resources so if the Germans were draining the Supplies badly. Those troops would've not be very happy to have run outta ammo a few weeks into D-Day or not have neccessary medical supplies. All things that came on ships that were able to make it to the Ports in England cause of Destroyers, Anti-Sub Warfare. Without any Cap on German subs how much would've made it? There wasn't that many German U-Boats as Hitler allocated many of those resources elsewhere but given he had gone the other way things could've been very different!

Agreed 100% Shaka. That is about the most accurate representation for a game...of a U-boat strategy for WW2 and the Atlantic Theatre. Take the amount of U-Boats that operated in one region roughly. Xs the amount of Tons of equipment they sunk there on average, then calculate how much Tons were actually moving. If the Allies do not Protect their convoys the War would be lost. All things in WW2 era are shipped, so if you have hundreds U-boats sitting off all Major US Ports there will be little or no supplies from there. You could even hammer losses on U-boats in this abstract Theatre... As far as Capitol Ship hunting, that's a bit more complex. I imagine that would be more like the game is designed now, U-boat as a hunting unit

Edwin, Errrrrr that would be pretty ugly... People would just use a Speak Program to avoid that. What would be more accurate is revealing Unit Movement, Unit Locations, Hidden Unit Strengths. You know typical Intel.

Shaka Personally I'd like be able to do more with Convoys and Lendlease. I'd love to be able to use German subs to do what they did so well, eat Merchant Ships. You know what would be cooler than knocking out MPPs which are like Money. Each shipment the Nazis knockout is an actual Convoy of Ships/Men/Supplies and until the US entry making this hurt more! What would be more a reflection is cut supply to any location subs are operating freely to Land units Make Subs more a longterm effect from raiding. Hide them better from Surface ships and do not allow them to be Battleship Destroyers<Did a U-boat ever sink a real UK Battleship?> Turn it into Economic/Supply Warfare as intended if you're going to have subs at all or just remove them from the future game.

Lordy you oldtimers We never even got to try Moonshine us Younguns We were too afraid of hooch and couldn't find it anywhere

You guys are nuts Well I still think some of you are sane men I guess. Hubert planning all this out, I think 90% of creating a game like this should be financial. Not sure 100%...I don't know Hubert though, it could've of been a pet project instead. One thing I do know is that there hasn't been update in awhile so either the title has fizzled, a new one is on the way or there are no plans for a future project<which we've been told the contrary> Sooooo Just beta alone can take a year or two. Even if the game was designed it wouldn't likely hit the shelves/market until Hubert was happy

You guys are nuts Well I still think some of you are sane men I guess. Hubert planning all this out, I think 90% of creating a game like this should be financial. Not sure 100%...I don't know Hubert though, it could've of been a pet project instead. One thing I do know is that there hasn't been update in awhile so either the title has fizzled, a new one is on the way or there are no plans for a future project<which we've been told the contrary> Sooooo Just beta alone can take a year or two. Even if the game was designed it wouldn't likely hit the shelves/market until Hubert was happy

In EU2, Age of Empires, Rise of Nations and Empire Earth I had no trouble with messaging. In have a talk only to Allies, talk only to Enemies, talk to everyone, talk to an individual message options. Axis & Allies didn't have this option and people would use a Talk Program, like Roger Wilco or MSN back at the time. Especially when we played 2v2 Platoon. <if a player goes as far as cheating to listening in, let them win they're that desperate > WW2online, has a more advanced messaging system but it's a 3-d shootemup... Even still people using headsets and talk for the speed. Something not a requirement with SC, but eventually would become widely used with 4 players 2v2 or larger. Teamspeak in that game is like a radio. Not bad...

Edwin Subs were a factor in WW2, a slight bit different though. More like Strategic Bombers, but IMO 10 Xs more effective! Ask around! Most of the bombing damage was repaired, the ships however once they hit the bottom couldn't easily be replaced until the USA entered. The Battle of the Atlantic was a huge effort, many men and many tons of equipment hit the bottom. We should have a kewl War there. Just as important as many other aspects of the game. Plus there was a lot of ships used to escort duty. I honestly think that the inclusion of Destroyers into the game and the phazing out of the Ahistorical Amphibious warfare available to players as being key to the realism and feel of SC. In certian locations the control of Supply by Sea was the deciding factor, like N.Africa... In other places over a vast ocean they were a bit more trivial but still costly... put up all the figures.. the Germans and Italians The Japanese even more were looking to effect the Enemy at Sea. Hurt them over the vastness <the Japanese probably the only ones equiped to hurt the Allies truly thoug>

Les, even Fighters could be an abstract Unit as well I mean honestly they didn't do that much damage to Land units... On Average what is your Air to Land Kill Ratio with a fighter in SC? 30% of land units destroyed by Air and about 90% of all units destroyed entirely by air. Give me a friggin break... Not one fighter unit ever killed an Army or Corps in WW2. If you're going to say it one way then it works both ways.

be best to post your ICQ #s on the ICQ list to find oponents

Edwin: Interesting and more realistic way to approach research. Odd to think you get Tech4 Jets 1 week in SC now and suddenly every Fighter and Carrier is instantly upgraded 3,000 miles away from home? Supplying Minors would not be far off history. We did it, but usually to those we thought could put up a fight. So it should be limited to nations that the Allies thought could fight, like Poland or had a some sort of historical obligation to