Erwin

I am REALLY looking forward to your scenario, as soon as I can stop myself from posting on these forums!!!!!! Questions: I started to set up. Noticed that one needs v 1.30? I am at 1.32 I think. Is that ok? Is there any way to resupply the ANA forces with their 7.62/34 and /54 ammo for the PK's and AKM's (and RPG's also)? Also btw: Re my personal set-up, my sense is that since it seems clear in the briefing that we'll have to do something about the village on the right flank, I would put more force there rather than a recon element. For similar reason I wouldn't put a whole platoon in the hills on the left since the town problem there is further away and across the river. I plan to set up snipers up on the hills along with any and all MG's. But, to keep the reg inf guys in reserve or on the right flank ready to follow the recon guys. That's just my assessment. I wondered why you set-up opposite to what I am think of doing? What was your thinking process re that?

"in general, armor resistance and gun capabilities of WWII-era systems are well known" What are you people smoking? I have seen this phenomenon before, and it's about when anyone spends too much time with experts like themselves without getting out of your bunker to see reality thus assuming everyone is like you.

"after playng the game for a week..." OMG. So, you really don't care about marketing to the average gamer, but only to us grognards and military professionals who have that sort of patience? Don't you know the AVERAGE gamer has the attention span of a flea when it comes to games - hence their preference for wrist-twitch games. But, I now see full extent of the conspiracy to slowly turn CMx into such a game with the first move being to get rid of command delays that only grognards like me could love. It's the thin edge of the wedge folks... and the end of civilization as we know it... The end is nigh...

Ok, so now we have to buy another laptop to play the game effectively? LOL I see a fabulous merchandising tie-in opportunity in with Dell here. (Also, are you sure that all the "to hit" and "to kill" calculations that were used by the AI in CMx1 still the same in CM:BN?)

Am fully aware that this is all a futile exercise since the big decision has been made, but for the record I (and clearly a significant number of others) do agree with Calibration's points. When BF said: If I order a Squad to slowly crawl to the edge of a road, then run over it, then go back to crawling along a low hedge, popping up occasionally to take shots at a specific house, then crawling around to the other side of the hedge to then assault the house... there should be no delays other than the time it takes to actually execute the Commands given the terrain, enemy action, physical Condition, etc." I totally disagree. A GREEN (or stupid) unit would NOT know how to do all this as well or as quickly as an elite unit. That's what makes a unit elite, they know what to do and have a faster decision loop than a lesser trained/experienced troop. That is what made the delay feature so brilliant in CMx1. It accentuated the difference in troop quality far better than them simply not being to aim as well or whatever the other differences are. It's what made CMx1 unique in wargames at the time, and one reason why many are still passionate about it, and it's still around even without support.

"they are sticking with this simplified approach as most customers just want a X beats Y type table,,," This statement really puzzles me as certainly all the chat on this board seems to be by military folks or hardcore gamers who absolutely would like that sort of detailed info. I agree with Elmar's take on what made CMx1 more fun.

Lovely. Thanks for the AAR. One question the pics raised for me is that I thought that troops discarded their backpacks when going into combat(?).

Ok, I can buy that. I was only worried that you were "hinting" to us what we should do at the start. It's not that your set-up is a bad idea, it's just that I may want to use different units. So, the first thing I may do when I start your (really good-looking scenario) is change a few things on the flanks at least.

Wot he said. Being patient is key (and also a frustrating aspect of CM2). Many times you have to start with a cautious approach with much waiting around for a few minutes letting your units with binoculars watch for something and also while air strikes go in and recon and hopefully kill things your guys can't see. 80%-90% I find I send in inf first with maybe scout vehicles if I have anything cheap. I find that one can usually ID and kill the ATGM's and only then bring up the purty valuable but delicate armor to blow the hell out of everyone else. With this formula in many/most (but not all) scenarios, the CMSF game teaches us it is better to have a platoon of cheap Light Armored HE throwers (like those Strykers we all hate) rather than a single expensive tank. ie: Better to have 3+ sets of HE heading out simultaneously.

And putting something like this together is akin to a full-time job as well.

Ok thanks. That's what I thought. But, it's been a while...

FYI: Here is an example of using the "Follow Me" game.sim whatever you wanna call it: www.followme.tacticaldecisiongames.com

Clearly we have two markets here. Everything I think boils down to what size game one likes playing. I like the bigger the better. In CM1 that can mean regimental/multi-battalion and in CM2, maybe battalion. I don't think that size is good for RT play. That's why I like WEGO. Clearly some prefer smaller engagements that can be played easily in RT. Re MeatEtr's points: "I'll use another example with the video, let's say that zooka team was given a hide order. Well that zooka shot would of had to wait for the end of the turn to get the order to un-hide for the TacAI to fire. Is that more realistic?" Well, one would give it a HIDE order with appropriate covered arc so it popped up and shot when the AI felt appropriate during that minute. "In WEGO the player is forced mostly to rely on the TacAI." Yes "Whereas in RT the player takes more control away from the TacAI. But which mode gives more realistic results?" Depends on what level you like to play. I see myself more as the company or Battalion CO and I try to issue orders that will be "appropriate" throughout the minute while I am busy doing something else, writing reports, yelling at my Exec, whatever... This is simply a personal matter of taste and this is where we probably have to agree to disagree. "A squad is ordered to run Fast into a enemy occupied building, a blunder no less in any game mode. In WEGO they will keep running towards the building despite taking fire and casualties and eventually getting pinned until the end of the turn." Yes, but I would NEVER make such a stupid order of course re my points above. I have to issue commands that are "safe' for one minute. "In RT you can hit the deck immediately upon taking fire by canceling the Fast order and give area fire order." I understand your point. But, I would have anticipated that outcome and would have already placed a waypoint prior to the building where the unit hit the dirt and piled on TARGET fire (I think they throw grenades) for x seconds PRIOR to entering the building. (Actually, because I am such a brilliant CO I would also have had other supporting units pile on fire prior to any unit being ordered into the building.) So, from my perspective you are clearly playing at a naive and superficial game level. (That's a dry English-type joke btw before you fire off something at me.) The point is that the CM enthusiast community likes to play in different ways. And so long as we're all having fun it doesn't matter. Not having delays makes it just a little less fun (for me), but it's not a deal killer. It's just different strokes etc...

And you really don't want to waste gazillions of dollars getting the V&V sorted out with the huge contractors looking over your shoulder. Possibly the DoD solution would be to have two families of sims, one (expensive) that has passed V&V, and the other COTS used for highly specific training where the instructor is the primary teaching tool who is using the COTS game only for visual illustration purposes.

Completely agree with Paper Tiger's points (again) and not cos he sends me money either! Many of us recall the enormous hoohah and complaints when CMSF first came out and it was NOT like CM1. So, it's best to think of all the CM2 games as different and brand new games with a similar-looking interface. If you love CM1 it is quite possible you may not like CM2. But, that's why it's so great that BFC provides free demos.

Good points. I too can see newbies struggling with all the opaqueness. And the manuals are simply ineffective re teaching you what you need to do to play the game "effectively."

Argh... Gryphonne... I presume you play in RT and pause or...? I hate the idea of pausing whenever you want as it denigrates the realism/verisimilitude of the game. As a die hard WEGO player, yes I have all the time I want every minute, but that doesn't count imo. It's the planning and discipline of creating orders that will work for 1 minute of continuous action without getting any of my guys massacred which is the challenge. And in CM1 that meant taking the time delays into account. Yes, it wasn't perfect, but it was an innovative concept and feature that helped make the CM1 games classics. There really should be a way to show poor quality troops taking longer to do things than elites. But, I sadly yield to the harsh reality of CM2...

I work for Sushi. (My cat loves it.) And BTW, I am sure you will love the Brits. They are a lot tougher to play than the US as their vehicles (usually) have lower ammo loadouts and they have a lot fewer destructive toys. But, they have lots of interesting "Landrover" and dune buggy-type vehicles with dismountable MG's and Grenade Launchers. The Brits really made me have to think and plan carefully, rather than the "blow everything to smithereens" approach you saw with the US.

I hope someone answers this. It is confusing as to which ATGM's and which MG's can set up and fire from inside buildings. eg: Been playing CMA and the Russian MG's apparently cannot be in buildings to fire.

Thanks for your input Dietrich. But, I wish that BFC simply publish a list of these things that many people have been asking about since the game came out. Instead the manuals are filled with info that is actually not very useful for playing the game.

"That defensive posture is one I would have taken, if I had been there." All I was saying is that I like to make the decisions re what units to use as outpost/recon etc. However, some designers put units in certain places as a hint as to what they suggest you do, and it can create a problem if you can and do change their set-up. (I hate that theory of design btw, so am happy that that is not what you have done.) In this case, you sound like you were trying to be "helpful(?)" But, I would rather simply have all the units in a "laager" in the rear and have the set-up positions that you have allowed us to be empty so I can choose what to place and where.

Good point. Plz tell GAJ about adding snapshots, it would be really helpful. If enuff people ask for them...

I forget... can one discover minefields (other than the easily seen daisy chains) without driving or walking into them and going boom?

FYI: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA335406

For us die hard fans, here is a... uh... historical example of command delays. Note the time it takes to comprehend what they are looking at and come to a decision (compared to how we could do it) heh. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q32MrziPoTM But, I realize that the RT fans just don't understand why we WEGO people much prefer it over RT. **Some sort of time delays forever!**