Agua

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! MAN, Thank you! I'd been using your CMBO grass for CMBB for as long as I could but it just got to the point where it got to looking too bad with mix-match terrain types and lack of complete elevation tiles. Thank you so much man.

In my case, they popped up RIGHT at the right time, at the nearly VERY spot that my starting smg platoons were starting to get fairly atritted. That was just a fortuity though. That was an excellent scenario (hoping for the review option to be setup at the Depot so Germanboy won't feel left out from all the praise I've been heaping around there)

DD!! PLEASE do a grass mod!!

It appeared to me you were basing your disagreement with my post upon semantics. This discussion between you and I really is getting pretty pointless now so I'll move on to discussions of cheese in a Monkeybutt thread if you want to let it go as well.

I recall the same. However, "about right" is not the same as "exactly right". We may be argueing semantics here, but I do not believe the changes in 1.01 are drastic. Then you are advocating a return to 1.00 parameters basic solely upon game difficulty. My personal belief is that realism should be the bellwether for what is too sloppy and what is not. I have not been in combat either. My opinions are based only upon my general impressions from reading about combat. If a combat vet were to say "this is a step backwards in my experience" I would take his POV seriously, but I have not seen that yet.</font>

LOL, yeah me too. jgdpzr - If you had the scenario set for default deployment, then you experienced the same defensive setup the rest of us did. You have every right to brag on that if you want man.

I see nothing in my post which indicates an assumption that determination of the panic threshold was made in a different manner for 1.01 as compared to v1.0. I have no idea. I do recall Steve stating previously that vets who had experienced the v1.0 infantry model expressed that that they thought it was "about right". Now, here, I'm going off of memory, but I believe Steve's "about right" comment(s) was (were) asserted in the context of the recurring complaints about the "brittleness" of infantry. I assume by "brittleness", the forum participants were referring to the v1.0 infantry tendency to reach a "panic and beyond" state while under fire. Trusting Steve's integrity on the matter, I had to assume that the veterans whom Steve was referring to had at least some basis for expressing that the infantry model was "about right". I don't know that would necessarily include being a member of a squad which "broke" under fire. As I related in my immediately preceding post, my *perception* was that I was able to advance troops rather quickly, without them tiring as easily, and without them breaking. If I had tried to push the infantry through the scenario / QBs at the same pace in v1.0, it is my personal belief that they would have panicked (sp?) and / or broken / routed. I do note that I was surprised how quickly the scenario concluded for me with the a/i surrendering. I utilized the word "sloppy", maybe "not as careful" would be more accurate? In terms of specifics, I'm referring to a lack of need to maintain *close* overwatch support, and it did not seem that the troops fatigued as quickly as in v1.0 - In v1.0, *close* overwatch and short advance orders were extremely important for success (or at least in my experience). I have no opinion as to whether it is more realistic, or less realistic, because, as I stated in a previous post, I have never been in combat. Steve, Thanks for the response. The infantry I played within the scenario I tried last night were mostly regular with a smattering of vets and greens). The two QBs I tried involved all reg / vets as well, so your comments concerning the experience levels which would display the most effect of the tweaks are completely consistent with my experience. [ November 22, 2002, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Agua ]

After reading your post last night I checked it out. I couldn't see what you are talking about. I'm running a GF4 Ti4600 128mb with 30.82 drivers.

There are at least two threads on this one. One is in "Scenario Talk", and the other *may* be in "Tips & Tricks". Someone gave a brief general description of how they achieved a major on it, though I don't believe it was their first try. It is VERY tough. I think I played it 6 times or more and never did better than minor victory.

Tom, I say "good bit", you say "little bit", whatever. I don't chide folks without doing so politely / constructively (I don't post anything that I wouldn't say to someone face to face) and I see nothing to chide about in your post (or my prior post either, for that matter) at all. I'm sure the change is a "crowd pleaser". I'm just wondering how Steve arrived at the threshold level. For instance, did the beta folks who are combat veterans say "okay, that's about pushing the max ... beyond that you're looking at supermen", or just how it was determined. That's all I'm asking. I played a scenario and a couple of quick battles last night trying to get a *feel* for the change. I have no empirical data to support the gut feel that my comment "good bit more room" is based upon. I make, no representations that I do. To be more specific in description (though, no more empirically based than my "good bit more room" comment), my perception is that I was able to really *push* troops forward with advance orders and didn't have to concern myself with suppression fire as much as I had with v1.0. Also, it didn't seem that the troops were tiring as easily (which may partially explain the heightened panic threshold - as, I believe fatigue affects morale). [ November 22, 2002, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Agua ]

Steve, I realize the chance of going back to v1.0 infantry morale-under-fire model is slim to none (and "Slim" has left the blah, blah) but, could you explain how, or why you determined the v1.01 threshold level for panic, break and rout of troops under fire to be appropriate? It seems that there's a good bit more room for sloppy infantry tactics now. It may be more accurate, I don't know, but just wondering how you determined the v1.01 panic threshold to be appropriate. Thanks in advance.

Welcome! With that attitude, you'll find your gaming spurs your appetite for history, which further spurs your interest in wargaming. Look through the Tips & Techniques forum. Don't be put off if someone tells you to do a search because just about everything in the world concerning tactics has been covered at one time or another. It would probably help you to begin compiling your own player's guide based upon posts in the Tips & Techniques forum. While the manual which ships with the game is hefty, there is a LOT of undocumented modeling in the game and the only way to learn about it is through the playing and reading of others' thoughts on it. Congratulations. The best entertainment $ I've ever spent, by a long, long ways.

Thank you Charles. Appears to be a damned fine patch.

StuGs are my favorite vanilla German AFV in CMBO. I've had decent success with them. I think the biggest thing with them is to not move them a lot. I don't know how this is different from a lot of other tanks in CMBO, but just have them cover your inf and stay put until they just have to be moved. They're easy to get into hull down and like CA said, with the sloped armour, it seems like half the time the first hit by a sherm with a 75mm gun will bounce off the thing. I don't know what I do differently than you with Stugs, but if I'm playing a 1,000 - 1,500 pt QB ME, I'll be buying StuGs only.

Yup! Another good one.

Found it, thanks guys.

First, thanks for the patch. I was on the road all day today and get home and surprised to find the patch was out. In any event, when I attempt to download the patch either through IE 6 or Netscape, I get a "page cannot be displayed" (IE) or "network connection aborted" (Netscape). Thanks in advance.

Just going down the scenarios as they appear in the selection list. "A Morning Commute" was a blast! Thanks for the address to the article in the Marine Gazette.

Hmmm... All from CMBO, but several are amusing. Playing Drive on Mortain one time as the allies tcp/ip with Jakk (haven't seen him around in a long time), somehow my lead Jumbo got taken out on the road and the second Jumbo was pushing it along down the road in front of it for at least a couple turns. Jakk said "You jackass, you've got at least 1,500 mm plate on the front of that tank". One was a tcp/ip game late one weekend night with redwolf where he requested a game with the "gamiest of forces", so we bought a bunch of flak trucks, puppchen, volksgrenedier SMG squads, wasps, and had at it. Flaktrucks taking out M10s, Flaktrucks dancing around all over the map to avoid mortar fire, puppchen firing on infantry, scads of wasps running around torching houses on a village map. Nothing funny in particular occurred, just the absurdity of the matchups was pretty funny. Finally, I was hanging on the CMHQ chat one afternoon and some guy cooked up a quick scenario called "flame wars" and we utilized nothing but about 7 FT each on a small map covered with dry pine forest with a church in the middle. I think we followed that up with a MG Jeeps v. FTs in heavy woods scenario (MG Jeeps won). [ November 20, 2002, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: Agua ]

Damned, looking good Canon. Gettin' that one too. Thanks.

Hmmmm...... using Gorden's whitewashed mods without CMMOS? Just guessing here, but I'd try removing the " _ww " extension appended to the end of each file number.

Ahhhhh....... much nicer Canon. I'm going to install that one.

Where's that borg?

It seems like someone posted a photo of that cover back when Michael was developing the conversion for CMBO. You could try looking for some of the threads generated during the development of that conversion in the CMBO forum. Then again, maybe you'll get lucky and someone will post one here.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, hell man. Thanks for everything you've done. My CMBO .BMP folder is filled with the mods of yours and Marco's. Hey, you never know, you're likely to pick it up once in a while. Anyway, thanks for all the gorgeous mods.