Holien

Hmmmm as ever two sides to a story... You had one broken man in the coloured zone one tank with main gun broken and the other all out of HE and 17 rounds of AP. Your tanks stood idle as my men ran towards the zone, so hardly well defended and clearly not in secure control!!! (I also had two HMG's laying down fire...) We had been fighting over that zone and it was there that my men found locked doors and got mowed down as they ran to front door. BTW I had 1 man hidden on the edge of the zone and I reckon he alone would have contested the area without me running the other men to the zone. The Stug crew had a score to settle (and the hamster told them to do it....) so a Heroic charge... What you fail to mention is your last minute rush on the zone I held with your M10 and for once I finally nailed one of those M10's. I do hope it was the M10 who survived a direct hit from an 88!!! In terms of the scenario and the VP's it was good not to know how it would be resolved. The designer had given no clue as to the VP's (Last Defense) and so I had thought I had totally lost it and was very pleased to get a fair draw!!! As you say you had more infantry so why did you rely on just one broken man to hold the area with two tanks with no real AP weapons. (I guess they should have reversed in there to use their 50 cals...) :-p What I think is really good about this new game engine is the relative spotting and the way of setting victory points. The designer could have chosen to use VP locations and damage done to enemy. That would have achieved the effect you wanted.... As for the use of crews I do seem to remember you using crews to clear some woods in the Cats vs Dogs game? Maybe my memory is poor as I am getting older... The use of crews as infantry has always been a CM hardcore bug bear and the AI I hope has been tweaked to stop the AI from doing it. I guess you can never stop players from doing it and if the game allows it, it will be done... (the hamster will whisper and make you do it....) I think the new engine is better than CM and I can't see why you would expect it to stop this, it can't... If you don't have good control over an area then you have allowed the game to be "Stolen"... Just a different POV....

Yes would be nice to have a site you can find decent H2H scenarios. I guess it will come eventually....

I second that a motion!!!

I would disagree with this assessment. You can go through any hedge, it needs some time but with the tools a soldier has it is possible. Not going to be possible if enemy firing at you but do able if you have a few minutes... A hedge is wood and can be taken apart / a hole made... It is not some sort of magic material that can not be worked with! Yes soldiers might get minor nicks and wounds and not be too happy but they would find a way over under or through!!!

Thxs Rockin I am learning new tidbits... Pity no consistent RW approach. I.e. All rubble = protection and somewhere to hide better than in open ground.... At least I now know how it is coded.... The hard part is potting these 3 story independent buildings? Anything that size is surely going to offer cover!!! Another one for Battlefront?

Yes and they might be told by a Hamster they carry with them that it is better to dance out in the open ground.. Lots of mights!!! I have no Army training so would be interested to know what is trained to troops? You have been told to take a building and you get to the front door and then you are fired at from a direction that is totally opposite from the building. What should troops do?

Hi, I feel sure the soldiers in Normandy soon learnt to spot good buildings from bad and there has to be some way of showing that in the game? Lets hope they are listening...

I would like to know the answer on that as well..... Other threads say buildings no good but some do seem to offer good levels of protection from small arms at least.

Please don't use Low Bocage... It looks like Hedge (until you learn that you need to know the difference) and players will think tanks can drive through it. Tanks should easily be able to drive through Vineyards IMO. Vineyards should not offer that level of protection that bocage offers IMO Just a players 2p.

Sounds like you should e-mail the save if you have it to Battlefront?

Yes small wood building if memory serves me well. Not a large one. Lots of dead Americans in it so maybe flies and the dead scared the Germans off the pile? It would be good to know the different protection levels. Seemed like my men in a barn were mowed down fairly quickly yet Americans in 3 story building pretty safe. That I guess should be the case. Not played enough to know for sure that is how it is modelled.

Fair enough RockinHarry but that was not what was being dealt with. It is worth doing if possible as it will solve some issues and we will have to accept stuff that happens during the game turn... A Good suggestion from Amizaur lets hope it is possible. For example that solution would have shown that my men would not be using the back door for some reason and the system would have replotted to the front door. In the other example it looks likely that was loss of morale before entering the building as I had a way point outside the door and the men paused and got whacked (no one died) but they were fragile and enough perhaps to lose heart. What I think they should have done is dive into the house as nearest available cover but instead they ran out in open to get hit by more fire... This might need another tweak if possible. The third issue is men going into a building and then leaving very quickly as if scared of the building (maybe ghosts) If this has been coded in to the game then we as players will have to examine the building skins to see how badly damaged. The previous CM made this easy with * and ** if I remember correctly. I can see why this approach for real;ism has been dropped so it requires players to learn / adopt new styles of play. H

Yes a small building but it was a small squad lots had died. Empty space either side so did not want to risk men being out in open so I went for a nearby building but the men ran in and then ran out again and got shot!!! The next nearby building I tried the door at rear did not work so men ran round front and died in open... All in all a tad frustrating.... I will try with larger rubble when I create some...

Just watching the video again I think I have been plotting way points in front of door to use. This I had not noticed does mean men hold position and re group for a few secs which out in open make them easy targets. I think one group stopped and was hit and then panicked. For me they should have still run in house as house is cover!!! But no they run in open and get shot up more... So maybe some tweaks for the AI either way?

Mark, OK file sent found one example and I will have to dig back to earlier saves for more...

ahhh good tip

ROFL Made me smile

OK Mark Will send in the morning once I find the exact issues described in the save files. Should be able to find a couple of examples and different buildings in the Last Defense.

You miss my point.... What I was in effect saying is that you don't have to wait for Firefly M10's are good at playing with Tigers.... So M10 can give a Tiger a run for it's money...

Yes been doing that all four times. One building the men kept running out of and I think that was due to damage but no way of telling as astrix like CM. That was a tad annoying as they died as well....

M10's seem to be able to hurt my cat....

I have this problem as well. Is there any answer? Surely rubble is a great bit of cover? Or are the health and safety guys worried about broken glass, asbestos?

In current game several instances of troops who were ordered into the building by having way points go for the door ways and they choose to just sit out side the building and get shot and then run in open and get shot more!! Also a couple of times with one building where there was a front door and back door. Front door in open covered by guns... Back door close to them and hidden from the guns... Both times the troops decided to run out in the open and use front door. Ohh well they would have done if they did not DIE!!! So when is a door not a door? Is this a feature? Poor Path finding? Any other instances?

**** Spoiler **** Good account and I guess every game is different. It all depends on the choices made by each person and how the luck goes with those choices. It worked for you and my mistake was not working over the buildings with the Tiger and Stug HE. That would have helped and I conceed I did not use my assets well. I would say either way it is a good game to play and I would sill like to see the Low Bocage changed to hedge or if kept have some holes in it as IRL it would not be one continuous wall in front of the town. People need to work on fields and their would be gates and little pass throughs so close to a town. As for balance let others suggest if it is good for HtH play.. H

*** SPOILERS *** Last Defense Well yes I can see your POV. FYI I play the scenarios blind so did not know the American set up. Hence I did not know they had no AT guns so took a cautious more timely approach. I also only play humans so having someone who could defend well helped. What cost me the game was loss of 88mm gun on the Tiger to a fluke shot. The game is still ongoing but I am on slippery slope.... If you know that you have the upper hand at the beginning and you use your force more aggressively it could swing it in favour of the Germans. Either way my point is that the low bocage makes a very long impassible feature which channels attacker and in a real world map this would have gaps or it should really be a hedge... Playing Double Blind is the only way to play IMO so would be good to know how you played it and why you think it is un losable as the attacker?