Holien

Cats and Dogs was my first Armoured HtH game and worked out OK despite mistakes by both sides... Worth a try

excellent work.. Anything to make the game easier for players would be great. Of course not sure what can be done but some good food for thought....

Siffo998 I think you have made a reasonable case and I would hope at some point this might be looked at if BTS have the time. It seems a tweak might be needed if at all possible? I would put this below reducing the chance of buttoned Armour spotting Inf by themselves which seems a bit too easy IMO.

+1000 I hope this does get tweaked further.......

Sublime yes this is what had happened, despite tanks not taking any losses or being fired at they were attached to the 1st platoon Inf HQ which got nailed by that 60mm mortar as he was trying to call in the German 81mm off board stuff. So it explains why they were at rattled status and I have not looked but maybe your tanks had their own HQ hence they did not mind about all your broken American Inf. It is an important point to note and for designers there has to be good reasons why you attach the tanks to an Inf Platoon HQ. I am still not sure that a Rattled tank should not have even taken a shot at your Shermans but that is the way the game is coded so we will have to live with it.

Derfel not sure if you have seen the thread about the odd AI behaviour for the German Tanks. This was caused by them going to rattled when they lost contact with the 1st platoon HQ they were linked to. Could you make one of the tanks a HQ unit which would be a bit better and solve the rattled issue to some extent.

I have seen this quite a few times and was wondering if this is a known feature? I would rather they use their fire at more sensible targets. Has anyone else seen this? Have I missed a thread that has already flagged it? Fair enough if there the tank is unbuttoned and no other juicy targets but surely not if the tank is already buttoned? Sorry if discussed already....

Thxs for looking AKD I think I had already come to the conclusion that it was just part of the current game mechanics and your confirmation re-confirms that view. IMO the designer should have had the tanks as a separate unit and HQ unit, not sure how that is done as I have not played with picking forces, just designed scenarios. I will post on the thread for Derfel to pick up the point and I hope he will tweak the design. I am still not convinced about any tank crew just pulling back without taking a shot, but if that is the way the game does it that is how I shall have to live with it. Also I need to do more checking on HMG's firing at Tanks and Inf squads. If the tank is buttoned I don't think they should fire at it and I seem to think I have seen quite a bit of that. I need to re-play vids at some stage and double check what I think I have seen against reality. Anyway good to know that you really have to keep HQs safe or as a player you will pay a price which is all fair in a game... Cheers H

Too late for that you opened the bottle.....

Link for video sorry no sound to try and reduce file size...

I have just spent some time looking more closely at what happened and some observations. 1. The German tanks were linked via C2 via the 1st Platoon Inf HQ which had been killed by lazer 60mms. Hence all the Germans were out of C2 and this I guess could account for the rattled status. Lesson is that perhaps the designer should have made one of the tanks a HQ tank and not linked to the infantry HQ? I will have to check how the American Tanks were set up. 2. I now have some video files but beyond the limit of Flickr and I will see how I can get them down to size. What does not seem right is that in the video I have infantry which are blazing off with small arms at the American tanks with no chance of doing any real damage and really just announcing to the Sherman hey shoot me with that HE you have that I so love.... While the one thing on the map that could take a shot decides that hey that gun can hurt me so I won't even shoot and just pull away... That does not seem right IMO and if there is anyway to tweak this I hope it can be done so that at least the tank will fire one shot before pulling back? Right off to find a place to host large video files, or find a way to edit. I have not used video stuff before so a bit of a learning curve and the good news is FRAPS has overcome my inability with Win 7 to take screen shots... H Update now uploading video to YouTube but will take some time.........

I have the save files of the three tanks reversing when they were hidden and had clear shots so can send them but not sure if BTS really wants them? Not sure it is a broken game mechanic in the eyes of BTS? I am sure the Beta Test team must have had similar results? Anyway if BTS or a test team member wants the file(s) I will gladly send. I am now interested in why the German tanks went to rattled when the majority of the German Inf were rattled but the American tanks stayed OK but the their infantry were on the whole broken. As mentioned the only difference I can think that might account for it is the loss of HQ's. If time allows I might run some tests to see if it is really down to the HQ loss.

A further update on the global morale and tanks becoming rattled despite not really being fired at. I just saw the end game screen and checked the American units and most of his infantry were broken yet his tanks were OK status? I am now not sure why on earth my tanks went to rattled and his stayed OK? The only slight difference is that he did not lose HQ units so maybe C2 with tanks was OK where the German C2 was lost as HQ units were killed? I have no problem with retreating tanks and yes have read reports about tanks pulling back, but not when they have a clean shot and have not been seen by the enemy which I think is wrong they should have taken a shot IMO. IRL if the tank commander had said edge up to peek through the bocage and then saw a Sherman out in the open I would like to think he would have fired the gun before pulling back. Anyway I will keep an eye open to see if this happens again. Also I might spend some time with the replays to try and find out when they became rattled... H P.s. Just reading about Elsdorf and a Tiger there pulled back (reversing down street) and ran aground on building rubble and had to be abandoned by it's crew. So I understand tanks pulling back and the modelling in the game is pretty good, just can't understand why three crews went to rattled when not fired at and had not really engaged in any combat.

It is (hard) when you first start playing and the low berm is not so easy to spot for low bocage IMO. When you see hedge and the width compared to low bocage width that is the easy way from an overhead view. For me anyway... (That is if you have hedge on the map to compare against.) The more it is mentioned the more I hope designers pick up on these threads.

And that made me laugh...

Just noticed this in Carbide Carbide and thought it was a tad odd. I guess maybe no easy way to code it. Would be good if directional? Not a problem if it can not be changed but a useful feature to use if you have them...

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=99963 See this thread for some discussions on this already. The summary as mentioned by some other helpful posters is that there are two types of bocage than can not be crossed. The lower type gets confused as hedge and I think will continue to cause confusion and this sort of discussion. Ultimately it is what the game gives us and while new people air the same views similar to yourself and myself those that are happy with it will offer their own view. I hope it gets changed but that is just my personal hope and does not mean I am not enjoying the game once I have learnt to know the difference. I think a real positive outcome of such discussions is to enable the UI to give feedback straight away when a unit can not follow the action path plotted, especially for WEGO. Again it is just a hope and I can understand if this is not possible. It would be nice to keep things constructive when discussing these issues....

Made me smile...

Has anyone said that there will be a patch? Why would there be one?

Thxs Ian. I guess if I could have given a target order that might have helped. As you have noted they lost sight as soon as they reversed so I was in same game advance spot and retreat... Ohh well it has happened once so maybe just a one off... (for three tanks in same game...) IRL perhaps the whole unit would have retreated off the board.

As this is not gathering any feedback other that the kind views of Yankeedog I want to expand the thoughts at how easy it is to transfer the morale settings. I have just had a situation where a sniper team some considerable distance to his HQ and not in touch has gone from good to rattled as his HQ has died. This supernatural power I guess is just the team feeling the shift in the force a bit like a Jedi.... Also I am not sure that Tanks when going to Rattled should just retreat and not fire... Surely one shot before pulling back? Rattled for tanks is in effect a death knell as they do not engage other tanks. Has anyone else seen that?

It would be good if BTS could code Buddy Aid to only be done if not under fire? I guess as ever that might be easier said than done... I have a HQ team I have told to hide as they are being shelled but are next to dead and applying buddy aid... I would rather they look after themselves first... Not a game breaker but would be nice to have a threat level above which such things as buddy aid don't happen. Mind you then people would complain that there team while under fire did not pick up the Faust of a dead colleague!!! So I guess maybe one to live with?

Well we waited 10 years for this and time will tell for the Eastern Front. For me I would like some early war action but Normandy is pretty good to re light the CM fire...

My glass is always half full.... But you could be correct.... Lets hope they will surprise us...

British (or commonwealth module I hope due soon). Russia I would guess would be next year but both are educated guesses....