guachi

JasonC, You are right, of course. The actual costs are irrelevant. The important thing is the comparison of the cost of weapon X to weapon Y. Automatic weapons are a bargain. The K98 is a rip-off having worse FP than any weapon in the game. Squad weapons are a bargain, especially the MG42. The MG42 has good FP at all ranges and constitutes a huge % of squad FP at long ranges. In addition, squad weapons have a lower chance to be eliminated when a squad takes a casuality. Yes, rifles do have more FP than SMGs at longer ranges. But the numbers concerned are so small as to be insignificant next to the power of any other weapon system at 250m+. The only typical use I could see for a squad to fire at 250m+ would be a German 1/2 squad or depleted squad with an LMG42 because it still has a reasonable FP rating. IMO, rifles should be cheaper (or automatic weapons should cost more, or both) and squad weapons should cost more. Some weapons, like the K98 are so bad that I can't imagine that they should cost much more than an unarmed soldier. A soldier with a K98 is nothing more than a body to take a bullet to keep the MG42 operational. Interestingly, the cost of a British rifleman (who has NO rifle grenades or schrecks) is 2.5 (I actually calculated it as 2.55). The cost of a German or American rifleman (who DO have schrecks and rifle grenades, respectively) is almost exactly 10% higher. Anyway, individual soldier costs need to be changed as automatic weapons are a bargain. It isn't going to happen for CM1, but maybe for CM2. BTS, please fix or do somefink! Jason

JasonC... About increased cost for infantry units by xp lvl. I was fiddling around with the costs looking at the total costs for all squads by xp lvl. And I JUST noticed something interesting. At first, I used Conscripts as a start and calculated the other xp levels as a ratio of Conscript costs. Nothing interesting popped up except that it was obviously not a geometric increase. Then, I went with what you said about the costs being based on REGULAR troops having a base of one. And that IS the case, although not how you figured it. Here are the costs from Conscript to Elite with Regular troops having a cost of 1.0. .64 .81 1.00 1.21 1.44 1.69 If you are at all familiar with math,these numbers should jump out at you as they are all squares. .8² .9² 1.0² 1.1² 1.2² 1.3² Looking at the cost savings for buying units in platoons/companies/battalions for every single unit in the game, the numbers, when averaged, come very close to showing a 5% savings per level. That is, buying in a platoons saves 5% of buying a unit individually (possible only for a very small number of units). Company saves 5% over platoon ,etc. Jason

One poster wrote that SS Rifle 45 squads cost the same as a regular rifle 45 squad. That is untrue. The problem has to do with the dropping of decimals by the CM cost routine. The two squads cost the SAME at all experience levels except Elite, where the SS squad costs one more point. This is a clear indication that MP44s cost more than K98s (albeit a very small amount). If you only compare costs at one xp level, you will get nothing but errors. That is why I had to use the total cost of one squad of each experience level. It was the only way to see any small differences. It was ALSO the only way to make sure that any similarities were not caused by dropping decimals. You are more than welcome to repeat the math I used. Here is what I did. All cost are for one squad of each xp level purchased at platoon level and added up. VG SMG and Fusilier SMG contain nothing but SMGs. VG SMG = 150. 150/8 = 18.75 Fusilier SMG = 169. 169/9 = 18.77 So I assumed that SMGs cost 18.75. VG Hvy SMG units have 6 SMGs and 2 MG42s so I can calculate the cost of MG42s. VG Hvy SMG = 212. 6*18.75 + 2*(MG42 cost) = 212 2*(MG42 cost) = 99.5 MG42 = 49.75 Using the above two numbers I can now calculate the cost of K98 rifles using squads that contain no MP44s (because I don't know their cost yet) Plugging the costs calculated above gave me K98 costs of (using four different squad types): 17.8, 18, 18, 18.1. So I assumed Rifles cost 18. And the similarity in the Rifle costs gives me confidence that my SMG and MG42 costs are fairly accurate. From here, I can calculate the remaining cost of the MP44. Four different squad types gave me costs between 21.9 and 22.4. So I settled on a cost of 22 for MP 44. American squad weapons. Paratroop and Glider squads differ by only the number of Rifles so I can use that to calculate cost of a Rifle, 19. Glider and Rifle 44 squads are identical in cost across ALL xp levels, eventhough squad composition is different (except for the one BAR). The easiest way for this to be is if Rifles, Carbines, and SMGs all cost the same. That is, 19 pts. And thus the BAR costs 25. Although that still doesn't explain why the BAR in a Rifle 45 squad costs 29. British - This was the easiest of all. Rifle and Airborne squads cost the same at all xp levels. Subtracting one from the other shows that Rifles and SMGs cost the same. Using that identity, I could subtract a glider squad from an Airborne squad and find the cost of a Rifle/SMG, which turned out to be 17 1/3. From this I could calculate the cost of a Bren, which is 40. I didn't really want to go into all of this math, but some people seemed to be questioning the validity of my numbers. They may very well be wrong, but at least you can see more precisely how I derived them Jason [ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: guachi ]

Many moons ago, while playing the CM beta demo, I noticed that more experienced squads have a higher FP rating than lower ones. I believe that the bonus was 10% per experience level. I never did notice what effect HQ bonuses had, though. Jason

When I write '18 pts', I mean that if you add up the cost of 1 conscript, one green, on regular, one veteran, one crack, and one elite soldier equipped with that particular weapon, the total cost is 18 pts. The biggest reason I used total cost is that it gets rid of lots of decimals. Writing '19' is better than writing '2.64' for instance. And, yes, the geometric cost increase from one experience level to the next is uniform for weapons. The cost increase is NOT uniform for all units, though. Artillery spotter costs, for instance, are far more impacted by experience than tanks are. In any event, I have computed the costs for regular soldiers. German K98 - 2.54 MP40 - 2.64 MP44 - 3.10 MG42 - 7.01 American Garand - 2.68 SMG - 2.68 BAR - 3.53 British Lee-Enfield - 2.44 Sten - 2.44 Bren - 5.64 I am unsure why there is no (or little) cost difference between rifles and SMGs. Jason

Something I'd been curious about for awhile - how much does an individual weapon in a squad cost? This may have been (and likely was) talked about before, but here goes... Calculating individual weapon cost isn't difficult, just time consuming. Methodology - I purchased one of every squad type at platoon level for each of the 6 experience levels and added up the six numbers for each squad type. I chose a base time of March 45 (except when I needed a US Rifle 44 squad) to not have any differences in squad cost because of changes in inherent squad abilities (like Panzerfausts). I used one squad of every experience level and added them to amplify any differences in weaon cost. Any decimal cost of a weapon (say, a Rifle costing 15.4 pts) would be masked by the fact that costs are only given in integers if I used ony one experience level. In any case, here are my findings. All point costs are given as a SUMMATION of the point costs for each experience level for that particular weapon. German - K98 Rifle - 18 pts MP40 SMG - 18.75 MP44 - 22 MG42 LMG - 49.75 All the above costs are approximate as the numbers never added up perfectly, but they should be pretty close. American - Garand - 19 Carbine - 19 SMG - 19 BAR - 25 Yes, the Garand, Carbine, and SMG really do cost the same. The BAR is 25 pts for Paratroop, Glider, and Rifle 44 squads; but 29 pts for a Rifle 45 squad. I don't know why, though. British - Lee-Enfield (or whatever their rifle was) - 17 1/3 Sten SMG - 17 1/3 Bren - 40 Take into account that British squads have no inherent AT capability like American (rifle grenades) and Germans (fausts) do. I'm not exactly sure what to make of these numbers, but maybe somebody else will have some thoughts. Jason Oh, I didn't use engineering squds in my calculations because of the inherent capabilities of engineers. It would be interesting to plug inthe above numbers and figure out how much the engineer capabilities cost.

back in my day, we didn't HAVE member numbers! Now, everyone can see if you are a newbie or an old timer! Just saw that i was 1002! Must be because I re-registered in Jan of 2000 when all the accounts got squashed (or whenever that was) ObCM comment - Haven't been by the forum in a really long time... but CM2 looks GREAT. I'm really excited about it now. Jason [ 09-04-2001: Message edited by: guachi ]

Germans - Pz III. A tank that, in its various incarnations, was available for several years. The PZ III has a large variety of potential Soviet adversaries ranging from awful to very good. It should be interesting. Russians - Anything as I have little knowledge of how an individual vehicle or unit type should actually perform Jason

Welcome back! I just recently played MY first CM game after a SIX month layoff. Good to see an old-timer. 200,000+ posts!!! Geez, when I started reading the board there were only 3,000 posts! Jason

I just got a MS IntelliMouse optical as a b-day gift. And I like it very much, thank you. I am a lefty, so 'ergonomic' pointing devices aren't very useful. The Intellimouse optical is symmetrical. Jason

I've posted this before about the Gewehr 43, some time last year. The Gew 43 had about the same production as the MP43/44 did, about 400,000 units. This was about 1/20th the output of the K98, though the Gew went mostly to front-line units and it was only produced for two years or so. A quote from a book entilted Germany's Infantry Weapons 1939-45 mentions this about their use, "[t]heir employment was largely confined to front-line infantry units, especially the motorized Panzergrenadiers, but the type never came remotely close to approaching the widespread use of the bolt-action Kar 98k and its ilk." I would guess that it would be reasonable to have one per Panzergrenadier squad. The book also mentions that most were shipped to the Eastern Front, so maybe it will be included in CM2. Jason

Well, my computer died on me in mid February. So I used it as an excuse to UPGRADE!! My aging K6-2 350 is replaced with a spiffy new Athlon 900 running at 930MHz on an overclocked 143MHz front-side bus. And I have a cool new ATI radeon video card. I just got the stuff last week and I have been busily dl'ing all the mods I never downloaded because my computer was too slow. And I have ALL NEW PICS. All I can say is WOW! CM looks SO COOL with a good system. Now that the system is up and running I can finish the DB. YAY!!! Jason

Off the top of my head, I think about 2500 were built between mid-43 and mid-44. Those of us who played the beta demo got a nice surprise and got to play with the Hellcat in Last Defense over and over and over and over again It was a nice change of pace from a usual wargame filled with the typical big tanks. And we got an appreciation for the Hellcats strengths and weaknesses. Oh, a little bit about the M10 production. If I am remembering correctly, about 5000 M10s were built at the end of 1942. Another edit... I cracked open my Chamberlain and Doyle "Encyclopedia of German Tanks" and flipped to the production numbers at the back. 8500 StuG III, 2500 Hetzers, and every other TD or assault gun far less than that. Jason [This message has been edited by guachi (edited 02-14-2001).]

Yeah, modifying the macro is the only way to get the pointer to look in a different directory for the pics. Easy IF you know where to find the macro code. Pascal, and e-mail is on the way. No rifle grenade, gammon bomb, etc. info? I thought I had added that, but maybe I was in the PROCESS of adding it. So in the immortal words of (who was it??) I will "fix it" and "do somefink"! Jason

Yeah, what Jeff said. I'm the dude who wrote the thing in the first place. I've been off the board and not playing CM for six months. CM withdrawal is almost as bad as not getting sex for six months!! (Trust me, I know) My first goal is updating the info already in and then adding the stuff I never put in in the first place. Finishing the update has nothing to do with time (I have lots) but everything to do with desire to finish it. If you are curious to see what it looks like, I could e-mail you (or anyone who wants it) a working (but outdated) version if you are curious to see what the database is like. The hosting site, ASL2CM is no longer up. You MUST have Excel 97 or 2000 to get the full benefit. Plus, be warned that the DB has pictures so the entire thing is about 3MB. Jason guachi_cm@yahoo.com

Talk about coincidence! Been away for six months and come back to see this! And I am doing somefink. I feel almost like a CM virgin. No playing for SIX MONTHS. Ouch. Anyway, I downloaded the 1.12 patch yesterday and noticed all the changes to the data. I started revamping the armor and changed some internal formulas. I am working on the rest of the vehicles. Next I need to upgrade the infantry (changes were made months ago to SMG firepower) THEN I can start work on the never finished sections of arty and field guns. The farthest I got on the field guns was writing all the data down on paper, which I did 5 months ago. But I lost it in my moves from Louisiana to Montana and then out here to San Francisco, so I have to do that all over again. In addition, I was working on some new data to include - average ammo loadouts for vehicles. I have about 10 German vehicles done for that. When will I get it done... Damned if I know. I still have no life, so I have the time. Anyone is, of course, welcome to modify the db themselves. But be warned that bizarre things may occur if you do. I WROTE the thing and bizarre things happen to me. I'm glad somebody remembers my database. If you are wondering, the database was available at ASL2CM, which is now no longer in existence. So you will have to get it from somebody else. Don't e-mail me, I don't have the last version that was posted. And the current version is unusable. Jason So, anybody do an updated FAQ yet?

Welcome Doug! But you can't beat me! I've been away since the end of, ummm, August or so. For those who don't know, Doug has been around since about Jun '99 or so? Like you, Doug, I moved (to SF, CA) and got a new job. It sure seems that nothing much has changed around here. Jason

It's been ages since I have participated on this forum (about 6 months). But I would like to extend my thanks to the Colonel for hosting my CM Excel database (now sadly out of date). Eventhough the database had nothing to do with ASL, he was kind enough to give it a home. The Excel file was actually pretty neat, if incomplete, and even had nifty pictures (the VB scripting to view the pictures was supplied by Mike Ratay). The CM community has some great folks in it; I wonder why I ever stopped participating. Anyway, thanks Colonel! Jason

So has anyone taken over the mantle of searchonaut in the last few months? A big "Hello!" to all the folks that recognize my screen name. You CAN get too much Combat Mission. guachi (absent head of the Searchonauts)

A few blurbs on the Gew43: 350,000 produced 1943-45 Most went to the Eastern Front (but so did most of everything) Largely confined to front-line units, especially Panzergrenadiers. Perhaps adding one in place of a Kar98 in Panzergrenadier units would be a reasonable compromise. Someplace, somewhere is a thread listing a bunch (abot 50) MGs that Germany used during the war. I doubt BTS will model them all. I TRIED doing a search but found nothing. Jason

I went away for two+ weeks and THIS was worth returning for (not that JP crap). Steve, isn't your first name actually Stephen and not Steven? Or am I just imagining things. (must nit-pick... can't help it...) Jason [This message has been edited by guachi (edited 09-21-2000).]

No artillery and no field guns. It isn't up at CMHQ, but there is a link to the websiten where the Excel file is. You'd think I'd know the website off the top of my head as I WROTE the Excel file. I haven't added the other stuff yet as I was away from my computer for two and a half weeks. Jason

The relevant portion of the article (a good article btw, check it out) "It doesn’t have to be just online games that benefit from this return to small. Stalwarts like Charles Moylan of Big Time Software managed to stay alive in the consolidation era and may be able to cut out the traditional publisher and use the power of the Internet. Currently, you can buy the acclaimed WWII game Combat Mission only direct from the company." Thanks for the heads up, Dick! Jason

I've found that command radius is halved for units out of LOS. In the case posted by Eric Lau the HQ likely has the standard command radius of 50m and the squad being commanded is out of LOS. Jason

MP43, MP43/1, MP44 production numbers: Date: Sept 44 to May 45 Numbers: 425,000 Kar98k production numbers: 1935-1945 14,500,000 + Production in 1944: Kar98k - 2,068,055 MP44 - 281,860 As you can see, there were over 30 times more Kar98ks produced than MP44s. In 1944 alone there were 7 times more Kar98ks produced than MP44s. Jason