nevermind Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Ok,ive read all that there is to read about gamey tactics.So,my question is,what rules do most people go by?You look for a game on the player finder forums,and for the most part,there is no mention as to exact gamey rules of engagement.Is it the duty of the poster to state what his/her rules on gamey play is,or is it up to the challenge taker?I have played several tcp/ip games as well as some pbem's,and it has never really come up.I have had,on occasion,some things that i thought were overboard done to me(not sure if they were gamey or not though),but i didnt say anything,i finished the game(surrender),but never plan on playing that person again.If at the end of a game,someone just leaves,is that a sign that they dont approve of your play?Is it customary to click "look at map" and say your "good games"?I always do,win,lose or draw. So,i ask you,all of you,any of you,answer any/all of these questions,please. [ March 10, 2003, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: nevermind ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Gamey tactics are unrealistic tactics... A good example is using AFV crews to scout ahead of troops, or running your trucks or kubelwagons to the flags in the last turn... yeah usually you should specify the rules before the match so noone gets pissed off... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 it is also possible to play "no holds barred" and you use whatever gamey tactics you want and I will use what ever gamey tactics I want. (most really good players, especially in CMBB, don't care what "gamey tactics" you try to pull on them, I would say) the "he used gamey tactics" thing sometimes comes up when one player is loosing (or lost) due to poor luck or poor tactics and prefers to point the finger at the "gamey tactics" of the opponent than accepting the loss gracefully and learning from it IMHO -tom w [ March 10, 2003, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermind Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by Sublime: Gamey tactics are unrealistic tactics... A good example is using AFV crews to scout ahead of troops, or running your trucks or kubelwagons to the flags in the last turn... yeah usually you should specify the rules before the match so noone gets pissed off... Yeah,i know what they are,im not new,but there has to be a more simple way of doing this.Some of you have been around awhile,and you have a long list of friends that you play,what about the rest of us? My idea(and yes i know it wont work,or be adopted),what if we all used a numbering system?Like from this site HERE I,for example,would be a # 4,i could then simply add the # 4 to my sig,then everyone would know before having to respond to a "game wanted" post on the player finder forum.What does anyone/everyone think? [ March 10, 2003, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: nevermind ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbaker Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 My first thought about a numbering system is that everybody has their own definition of what is gamey and what isn't. This would be further confused by assigning a numerical system to the argument... I mean, one person's definition of gamey is neccessarily another's, and trying to differentiate between a "3" and a "4", for instance, would be even more difficult. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermind Posted March 11, 2003 Author Share Posted March 11, 2003 Originally posted by bbaker: My first thought about a numbering system is that everybody has their own definition of what is gamey and what isn't. This would be further confused by assigning a numerical system to the argument... I mean, one person's definition of gamey is neccessarily another's, and trying to differentiate between a "3" and a "4", for instance, would be even more difficult. That is very true,but the more categories you have,the more people you will have that pretty much fit into one or the other.If nothing else,it could be fairly close,even if there were only 5 categories.I being a #4 know i wouldnt want to play someone that was a 1 or 2,or in between.If they arent in one group,but inbetween,i could still see if their idea of "gamey" significantly differ from mine. [ March 10, 2003, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: nevermind ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 To get a handle on 'gamey' you've got to remember there are two type of CMBB player. First there's the play-to-win types, who don't know what's wrong with playing ANY game in a 'gamey' fashion. Second, there's the historical reenactment types. These guys are cut from same cloth as those creepy civil war reenactors who think wearing a polyester blend on the battlefield is the height of blasphemy! To them any move or action in CMBB that could not have been done on a real WWII battlefield is a shameful and cowardly act. [ March 12, 2003, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermind Posted March 13, 2003 Author Share Posted March 13, 2003 *Starts banging head on desk in frustration* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Gamey is defined as; "Anything the opponent might do to defeat you." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterX Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Personally, I've racked my brain, but can't come up with any gamey tricks in CMBB. In CMBO, yes, there are several that come to mind though, IIRC, only a 2 or 3 survived out to version 1.12. Can anyone cite some good tricks applicable to CMBB? From a purely academic viewpoint.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Originally posted by PeterX: Can anyone cite some good tricks applicable to CMBB? From a purely academic viewpoint.... Anything involving more than 12 flamethrowers on a small map. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Here is the penultimate essay on gamey: Originally sputtered by The_Capt: I was contemplating a new topic for the discussion of the week (CM and 19th century existentialism, or however you spell it) when I noticed that the evil topic of gameyness has resurfaced. So in an attempt to dispel all doubt on what is right and wrong from the minds of the unwashed masses here is a re-print (and slightly re-edited) of my spin on the subject. For those who have already read it, I apologize, so go read something else. My spin on the greatest question of our generation: "When are you being gamey?" My opinion All of CM is "gamey", not unlike a fine free range North West Territory ptarmigan. For those who don't know what a ptarmigan is, it is like a partridge (not the dysfunctional 70s family but the bird, although you could shoot and eat the family but I have no idea how they would taste. Although the older sister...what was her name again...whoops, time to come back, this is not that kind of forum). CM is a game after all and not actual warfare(although if you've spent more than a few months here on the forum you may argue that point). The creators have kept this in mind by allowing players to do, whatever the hell they want(c'ept Fionn of course Hey easy now I joke cause I love). The only "rules" are those agreed upon by two opponents. In my opinion some members of this community wish to pursue CM as a historical simulator. I personally think this is an empty goal and unattainable. And I can sight dozens of problems between the game and reality, like the little men in CM are NOT REAL!!..BUT it doesn't make it any less fun nor negate their attempt (though somewhat sad in my simple mind) to try. So if you want to recreate a WWII battle down to "cap badges and weapons sights" go ahead. And try and find like minded players who are also willing to play in this frame. BUT you are not better or superior because you do and we are not lesser people undeserving of the "holy piece of software, sacred binary code upon whom all others look pale and pasty, that's right, put your hands together. Can I have an Amen! Praise Combat Mission!! Ahem, cough cough." You (and I am talking to mostly Grogs here) have only decided to play the GAME a certain way. The rest of us (and I group myself)look at CM as a game and will use everything we can in the game to win or (lose as has been the case lately). So if it is a coy of flamethowers lighting up everything in sight like a Mongolian barbecue chef gone postal, and your opponent is OK with it, PLAY ON! Problems and conflict arise when one camp bumps into the other. A die-in-the wool Grog meets a half-liquored Friday night CM Goon whose girlfriend/wife wants nothing to do with him (or her...well you know what I mean just switch the gender labels around for you girls...both of you). They fail to establish "ground rules" and charge into a doomed battle. The Grog, with his AFV posters and manuals is slaving over which Allied doctrine to try and modelling his unit purchases against WWII OOBs. "Now did Capt Johnson have a single or gold plated command rating? Well let's see how he fought at Anzio..." and so on. The Half-Baked Goon; "OK let's see what a map with nothin but Arty FOs and freakin TRPs will do..heh,heh. Oh ya I'll throw in 12 jeeps cause they burn good....man I am hungry....and thirsty. What is taking this guy so f#$4ing long." Now our two warriors meet. The Grog has a perfect Bn advance as per the "Closing of the Falaise Gap"..."Now which coy actually was forward left..." The Goon sits and giggles "C'mon you pansy assed Brit Sh$t eaters...come to Fritzy....atta boy" Boom! Arty starts dropping like bird crap at a beach wedding. The Grog "oh my now what was the allied drill...ah yes...very good..oh my he is using it all up at once...I think vonGoosestep tried that in Italy but this is France tsk, tsk." Goon " WOOOO-HOOO!!....(to sleeping boy/girlfriend)...you see that?! Now for the big stuff, 300mm and another beer...belch". BOOM, KA-F$#%ing-BOOM!!! Grog; "Oh my, well let me see an Axis SS Division has ###long range arty assets...oh my! That doesn't seem right. My opponent will very "red-faced" when he sees his mistake, tee-hee....Oh dear there goes Stanley's Coy.." Goon; "TAKE THAT!! AHHHH-HAHAHAHAHA. I love this freakin game, I swear I saw bodies flyin. Oh sorry dear.....And now for the jeeps." Jeep assault onto hill 130 is carried out. Grog; "Now I am afraid he has gone too far...time for a stern chat message.." Goon; "I wonder what's on Fox or wait I think that Arts channel has Euro-porn on at 11..." Chat message: GenAllisterMontegue: "Excuse me for saying but your force purchase seems a little excesive in the Artillery and Recon assets." JOhnnyRottAN: "What do yu meen?" GenAllisterMantegue: "Well if you consult "ALL THINGS AXIS" the 1998 edition, you will see that you simply do not have the amounts you are using here." JOhnnyRottAN: "Hey pal! If it works, it anin't broken...you callin me GAMEY?!!!:{" And we can all see hard feelings and anger which will result as the exchange degrades into....a forum thread. As an aside the freaks out there have a slightly different approach, they establish ground rules then quickly proceed to ignore them. ALL'S FAIR IN LUST AND WAR DICK_HEAD!!!!! I RULE!!! WASSSUPPP!!! So the only rules are ones you mutually decide on and in the long run it is only God you will have to answer to in the end (and yes I am sure He plays CM, big on Allies but he really hates the Sherman). So happy gaming and let's just be friends. And go our there and kill each other CM style! Authors Note: Now for any out there who feel that this is a cheap re-post of a former topic to avoid having to actually think this week, you are absolutely right. I figure I can get one more mile out of this piece of work and then will actually have to pump out something original and if you don't like it SCREW YOU DICK_HEAD!!! I RULE!!!! WASSSSAAAAAP!!!And that, as they say, is that. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleete Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 I've read it half a dozen times, and it still elicits a chuckle. The ultimate last word on gameyness, to be sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 So, what's the ultimate essay if this is the penultimate one? Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiggDogg Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Guys, Once the troops are chosen and no other rule restrictions are agreed to, nothing is gamey, and everything is acceptable. Indeed, it is quite surprising that CM, both BO & BB, contain so few true perversions. Cheers, Richard 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: So, what's the ultimate essay if this is the penultimate one? Regards Jim R. This: Originally cracked by Madmatt: Lets not go there. Stop beating the dead horse on this issue. There have been HUNDREDS of topics on this and its just a matter of opinion. <huge>In the end, you are playing a game, so everything is gamey.</huge>'Nuff said. Steve [ March 12, 2003, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: MrSpkr ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermind Posted March 13, 2003 Author Share Posted March 13, 2003 I give up,im either going to have to hire somone to write these things for me,or try in vain to find the answers my damn self. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hub Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Nevermind: I ask to put a limit on the rarity- usually no higher than 20%, and don't set force selections using "Unrestricted." What amuses me are people who holler," What a crock, everyone knows the Mk VI Hupmobile has 12 rivets on the side, not 13!" Yet a lot of these same people then proceed to play using "inspired tactics." I'd rather people played along more historical (realistic?) lines, but if they don't, there's nothing much you can do about it, other than play against the AI (not much fun after awhile). If you run into someone who pulls a stunt in the middle of a game, just have a few laughs over it and press on. It's still not as bad as The Time BC (Before Computers). I remember lots of boardgames going absolutely to hell while the "rules lawyers" dissected Page 13, paragraph 9, subsection (a), trying to tell each other what was really meant (to their own advantage, of course). I think half those turkeys were studying for their bar exam on the side...At least in CM, once you press GO, you're committed. Just run with it and have fun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermind Posted March 13, 2003 Author Share Posted March 13, 2003 Thank you!That was what i was asking 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esper Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 lol hub "What amuses me are people who holler," What a crock, everyone knows the Mk VI Hupmobile has 12 rivets on the side, not 13!" Yet a lot of these same people then proceed to play using "inspired tactics."I had written up something saying almost the exact thing but got distracted then closed the window by mistake. I have been fairly lucky in my games .. I think I have had only 1 game I would consider "gamey" (not that I have had a ton or anything.. but a decent ammount now) I tend to stick with more historical(realistic whatever you choose to call it) choices.. the best way to get the games you want, besides talking about "rules" before is set it up yourself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Can somebody show me a gamey CMBB tactic that actually has an advantage for the player using it? I currently can't think of one. And as long as I don't know of one, I don't see a problem. Dschugaschwili 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scheer Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Now, I sure am gamey, but only against opponents who also are gamey. Against my beloved grogs I play mostly historically correct. Having said that, gamey tactics for CMBB ? As already mentioned the jeep/truck rush in the last turn(s) to the holy flag. Buying lots of SMG troops in early and mid war. Playing in unrestricted mode is gamey per se. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Originally posted by MrSpkr: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by PeterX: Can anyone cite some good tricks applicable to CMBB? From a purely academic viewpoint.... Anything involving more than 12 flamethrowers on a small map. Steve </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 Originally posted by MrSpkr: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by PeterX: Can anyone cite some good tricks applicable to CMBB? From a purely academic viewpoint.... Anything involving more than 12 flamethrowers on a small map. Steve </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou2000 Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 I think the only way is for players to decide what is NOT permitted prior to the game. I'm running a small,fun only tournament (NOWT) at the moment and when setting it up I thought about 'Gamey tactics' and what should and should not be allowed .... In the end I just decided to keep it open ... If it's allowed BY the game ... it's allowed IN the game. That way there could be no complaints about who used what tactics. I'm happy playing either way, as long as I know before the game starts 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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