Campaign Script - REFIT & REPAIR VEHICLE

[puje]

Could some one well-versed in making campaigns explain to me what exactly the lines "REFIT" & "REPAIR VEHICLE" do?

Is it basically replacements for my Core Units? Like if I put both values at 50%, does that mean they will replace 50% of the units and vehicles I lost with new, similar ones?

Or are we actually talking repairing damage (like damaged sights etc.) on the existing vehicles I just took into battle?

And what about walking wounded, incapacitated, and dead soldiers?

 

The manual is not at all clear about this, please help!

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by puje

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I'd love to see this clarified too. 

[Ivan Zaitzev]

The percentage is the chance you will have of vehicles being repaired and units refitted. Allways talking about your core units.

For example, if you are playing two scenarios only separated by a couple of hours, where your troops could not be resupplied then you could leave all in 0%, but if your scenarios are separated by a year then chances of being resupplied should be around 100% (I'm looking at you, Afghanistan 1985 campaign!)

[Erwin]

I don't recall ever seeing partially repaired vehicles.  AFAIK it's all new or nothing.

[puje]

9 hours ago, Ivan Zaitzev said:

The percentage is the chance you will have of vehicles being repaired and units refitted. Allways talking about your core units.

For example, if you are playing two scenarios only separated by a couple of hours, where your troops could not be resupplied then you could leave all in 0%, but if your scenarios are separated by a year then chances of being resupplied should be around 100% (I'm looking at you, Afghanistan 1985 campaign!)

"Refitted" means filled up with replacement soldiers, right?

I did a few tests in my campaign, and my problem seemed to be that then Strykers were knocked out and drivers/gunners were killed, a new Stryker complete with crew would spawn in the next battle. At least, if the Stryker was the only casualty. 

I'm fine with some wounded being healed up (they heal up, previously wounded returning to their units etc.)

But the Strykers... In story of my campaign, it just doesn't fit very well that a whole new Stryker just magically appears after being blown to kingdom come...

Another problem is that walking wounded soldiers don't seem to heal between battles...

Edited February 24, 2019 by puje

[Erwin]

22 hours ago, puje said:

"Refitted" means filled up with replacement soldiers, right?

I just don't remember - but you may want to check that there are not two "refitting" / "replacement" programs in the game - one for vehicles and one for personnel.  Hopefully someone else can confirm the exact mechanism.

[Combatintman]

Unfortunately campaign scripts aren't something I have much knowledge of and would like this clarified myself ... calling @George MC

[George MC]

My <understanding> is the following:

Refit - this refers to replacement men and equipment including vehicles.

Repair Vehicle - refers to repairing vehicles NOTE: repairs are binary i.e. fully repaired vehicle rather partially repaired vehicle 

Resupply - all units are equipped with ammo (NOTE: fuel load outs not tracked in CM) 

Rest - how much units get to recover.

The actual % is set by the designer and TBH I've not tested them. I've tended to go 'feel' through a campaign via testing and what I think is a 'realistic' value e.g. if campaign covers consecutive days then I'd tend to set the first two to 0 and most everything to a very low %. It's binary so refit set to a high % will mean everything gets refitted to that % how the game engine works this out I've no idea. As i said I just set what i think is realistic and then check that behavior produces the required results in game.

[Combatintman]

I'm happy about the designer sets the value and that in principle, replacements/repairs/battle casualty replacements can take a while to show up meaning that I have to put some thought into the percentages I choose to reflect realism. This conceptual bit I get totally.

The percentage = the chance of stuff being repaired/refitted etc, rather than the number of vehicles that get repaired from what has been said so far but I do like to clarify these things because I am a dummy at sums and I think this is what the OP is getting at with the thread question.

So if I have an 11 mission campaign. I lose one vehicle in Mission 1, one in Mission 2, one in Mission 3, one in Mission 4, one in Mission 5, one in Mission 6, one in Mission 7, one in Mission 8, one in Mission 9 and one in Mission 10 for a total of ten vehicle losses.

The designer's campaign script assigns a 10% value for refit between each mission. Does this mean that it has a 10% chance of replacements being received? If it does then we'll say that it fails to trigger until the point between Mission 10 and Mission 11. In that instance do I get 10 vehicle replacements or do I get 10% of my lost vehicles (i.e. one vehicle) at the start of Mission 11. My guess is that I would get all 10 vehicles but based on @George MC's comment about testing and adjusting I am not so sure and think that the thing will trigger based on the absolute percentage but not give the player an absolute percentage of new vehicles.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Combatintman

[Rinaldi]

49 minutes ago, George MC said:

My <understanding> is the following:

Refit - this refers to replacement men and equipment including vehicles.

Repair Vehicle - refers to repairing vehicles NOTE: repairs are binary i.e. fully repaired vehicle rather partially repaired vehicle 

Resupply - all units are equipped with ammo (NOTE: fuel load outs not tracked in CM) 

Rest - how much units get to recover.

The actual % is set by the designer and TBH I've not tested them. I've tended to go 'feel' through a campaign via testing and what I think is a 'realistic' value e.g. if campaign covers consecutive days then I'd tend to set the first two to 0 and most everything to a very low %. It's binary so refit set to a high % will mean everything gets refitted to that % how the game engine works this out I've no idea. As i said I just set what i think is realistic and then check that behavior produces the required results in game.

You have the measure of it. Refit would replace a knocked out or destroyed vehicle, whereas a repair would say, bring back to the TO&E a fallen-out vehicle (say if it was immobilized) or put all its subsystems back to status green.

I used Ian's website to finally figure it out by looking at the scripted values for the Black Sea campaigns. For example, you have a 50/50 chance of refit before the final US mission. I struck out and therefore had to make due with a heavily worn-out Scout platoon. The confusion comes for a lot of people, understandably, because 'refitting' a vehicle is often used interchangeably with 'repairing' one. Whereas in the context of CM it means 'refitting the unit' versus 'repairing the vehicle.' 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Rinaldi

[George MC]

44 minutes ago, Rinaldi said:

You have the measure of it. Refit would replace a knocked out or destroyed vehicle, whereas a repair would say, bring back to the TO&E a fallen-out vehicle (say if it was immobilized) or put all its subsystems back to status green.

I used Ian's website to finally figure it out by looking at the scripted values for the Black Sea campaigns. For example, you have a 50/50 chance of refit before the final US mission. I struck out and therefore had to make due with a heavily worn-out Scout platoon. The confusion comes for a lot of people, understandably, because 'refitting' a vehicle is often used interchangeably with 'repairing' one. Whereas in the context of CM it means 'refitting the unit' versus 'repairing the vehicle.' 

Cool - cheers for confirming my hunches!  I'm more a seat of the pants designer!

Aye good point re confusing nomenclature by designers in briefings. Yup and in CM campaign scripts they are two VERY different concepts. I forgot to add for 'repair' that immobilised and bogged vehicles have a chance of coming back into action - again depending on the 5 chance the designer sets. As an aside, I've not noticed badly wounded or KIA crew members be replaced in damaged vehicles no matter what % 'refit' set to. You any take on that?

[puje]

6 hours ago, Combatintman said:

I'm happy about the designer sets the value and that in principle, replacements/repairs/battle casualty replacements can take a while to show up meaning that I have to put some thought into the percentages I choose to reflect realism. This conceptual bit I get totally.

The percentage = the chance of stuff being repaired/refitted etc, rather than the number of vehicles that get repaired from what has been said so far but I do like to clarify these things because I am a dummy at sums and I think this is what the OP is getting at with the thread question.

So if I have an 11 mission campaign. I lose one vehicle in Mission 1, one in Mission 2, one in Mission 3, one in Mission 4, one in Mission 5, one in Mission 6, one in Mission 7, one in Mission 8, one in Mission 9 and one in Mission 10 for a total of ten vehicle losses.

The designer's campaign script assigns a 10% value for refit between each mission. Does this mean that it has a 10% chance of replacements being received? If it does then we'll say that it fails to trigger until the point between Mission 10 and Mission 11. In that instance do I get 10 vehicle replacements or do I get 10% of my lost vehicles (i.e. one vehicle) at the start of Mission 11. My guess is that I would get all 10 vehicles but based on @George MC's comment about testing and adjusting I am not so sure and think that the thing will trigger based on the absolute percentage but not give the player an absolute percentage of new vehicles. 

Very valid question. It can mean all the difference in the world!

[Rinaldi]

6 hours ago, George MC said:

As an aside, I've not noticed badly wounded or KIA crew members be replaced in damaged vehicles no matter what % 'refit' set to. You any take on that?

No sadly, nothing more than speculation; I wonder if that's because they count the actual crewman as 'infantry' - which would therefore fall under 'refit' rather than attached to the vehicle - which would fall under repair. Possible oversight. Easily fixed I suppose by a campaign designer being merciful and just slamming 100/100 on both values at a certain point. 

Speaking of which, nitpicky but some errata to my previous post: Last mission of TF 3-69 actually only gives the US a 25 percent chance to refit. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Rinaldi

[George MC]

41 minutes ago, Rinaldi said:

No sadly, nothing more than speculation; I wonder if that's because they count the actual crewman as 'infantry' - which would therefore fall under 'refit' rather than attached to the vehicle - which would fall under repair. Possible oversight. Easily fixed I suppose by a campaign designer being merciful and just slamming 100/100 on both values at a certain point. 

Speaking of which, nitpicky but some errata to my previous post: Last mission of TF 3-69 actually only gives the US a 25 percent chance to refit. 

I had thought crewmen were classed as infantry hence thinking if you have a 'refit' some KIA crewmen might be replaced.

As discussed 'repair' only cover the actual vehicle that is certain. I wonder if crewmen are just not covered? Hhmm...

[puje]

Would be great if some one had time to do some in depth testing. Unfortunatly Im not raising my hand right now

[Rinaldi]

Oh goodness, George, I went and mixed them up...which I suppose illustrates the point about confusing nomenclature, as well as how daft I am. 

[MOS:96B2P]

On 2/25/2019 at 6:52 AM, Combatintman said:

The percentage = the chance of stuff being repaired/refitted etc, rather than the number of vehicles that get repaired from what has been said so far

The designer's campaign script assigns a 10% value for refit between each mission. Does this mean that it has a 10% chance of replacements being received? If it does then we'll say that it fails to trigger until the point between Mission 10 and Mission 11. In that instance do I get 10 vehicle replacements or do I get 10% of my lost vehicles (i.e. one vehicle) at the start of Mission 11. 

Okay, just read this and I'm trying to make sure I understand it.  What is the answer?  Do you get all 10 vehicles or just one?  From reading the entire thread I think it is all 10 but want to be sure.

Does this % chance work the same in all four categories?  For example % chance of Rest.  I have 30 exhausted troops.  The percentage roll is in my favor so all 30 troops report for duty as rested? 

I think it is always an all or nothing result depending if you win the % roll or lose the % roll?  Example: 

Refit = Every destroyed vehicle and KIA soldier is replaced or none are.  

Repair Vehicle = Every red subsystem is returned to green or none are.

Resupply = All ammo supply for every fire team & vehicle is returned to Full or it remains in its current supply state (limited, scarce, etc.)  

Rest = Every troop and crewman are returned to rested or they remain in their various states of tired, exhausted, ready, etc. 

Thanks for your continued patience in this matter ......