After all this time, tooltips are still missing from important things

[FroBodine]

For newbies, tooltips are super essential.  In this case, I am referring to the white/bluish icons that show the different systems vehicles have.

 

Why can't you add tooltips to at least describe what these icons are?  I am constantly having to look in the manual to see what each one does. 

 

Tooltips would solve this, and make the game much more user friendly to new players, and folks like me with poor memories.  After so many upgrades to this game engine, tooltips are still lacking.  

 

Tooltips.  White/bluish icons.  And more!

 

Please.

 

Onwards!

Edited February 15, 2015 by FroBodine

[c3k]

That has been oft requested...as well as a scrollable list of vehicle systems. And other UI improvements.

 

Short answer: anything devoted to that would take away from something else.

 

Long answer: umm, about the same as the short answer but with more syllables.

[womble]

The interface is antediluvian. Hopefully, when they move graphics engines, some of the barriers to actually making a modernised interface (rather than one that looks like it's from the 90s) will go away.

[c3k]

Points for "antediluvian".

 

Is it getting better? Yeah. We have hotkeys, we have spacebar menu. That's better than just having the on-screen UI.

 

Is there (a lot) of room for even more improvement? Um, yeah. But, as often posted, what would you do? How could a UI show all the information, and allow all the commands, in a better way?

 

(Seriously. The more/better ideas that get put out, the better a new UI could be.)

[womble]

• Tooltips on everything.
• And a toggle to turn them all off.
• A user-customisable UI, in colour, element location.
• The ability to remap all hotkeys. All of them, not just A-z and punctuation. Arrow keys, Del, Home, Pageup. Function keys.
• Feedback in the hotkey mapping screen to both inform you when you re-use something already assigned, and (if there are any reserved functions left in) to tell you when the key you choose already has something assigned that will remain assigned (I'm looking at you, arrow keys).
• Scroll bars.
• Basic editor functions (next/prev word, forward and back arrows, click to place, shift-selects) in text entry boxes.
• Double-click functionality in the game menus.
• The option for a confirmation dialog on pushing the BRB, settable for solo and hvh play styles.
• Not having a "are you sure; changes will be lost" dialog, when you've done nothing (edited no fields, modified no map elements, issued no orders) since you last saved a game or a scenario and try and exit it.
• If you have made changes since the last save, the option to save when you exit, rather than cancel and go save.
• Toggles for all the view control modes so you can turn off the ones you hate. Edge scrolling is my particular bugbear, but I'm sure there are people who would rather the screen didn't rotate when they hold their RMB and move the cursor, for example.
• Unit groups that persist past saves and reloads.
• The ability to return expendables to vehicles/ammo caches. This is part UI (you'd have to have a "2-sided" inventory management screen) and part record-keeping (there would have to be ways of adding things a unit didn't originally carry).
• View heights corresponding exactly to the view from the selected unit. Possibly even sub-selectable to the various different views from each of a unit's set of eyeballs.

Many of these could be grouped under "basic functionaliy present in all professional software since about Windows 3.11".

And that's just a list off the top of my head.

[Melchior]

One of the nicer (probably only nicer) aspects of GTOS' UI is the LOS function which shows in a flat color absolutely every angle a unit can see. You don't need to target and point to check every line, the game shows you everything your men can see in one click. 

 

Also i'm sure it's been brought up but a formation control that allows vehicles and units to proceed in convoys down roads. Again, another feature GTOS has that works great. 

[Glubokii Boy]

I think that it might very well be time for BFC to increase the size/resolution of the entire game (UI, briefing screen....).

 

Having the screens this small might have been a good idea a few years ago but today aren't most people (including the laptoppers) playing at atleast full HD (1920 X 1080)...

 

The biggest resolution you could set in the option screen (besides desktop size) is 1280 X 960...The current UI and other screens are designed with this resolution in mind i Think...

[Uncultured Swine]

Points for "antediluvian".

 

Is it getting better? Yeah. We have hotkeys, we have spacebar menu. That's better than just having the on-screen UI.

 

Is there (a lot) of room for even more improvement? Um, yeah. But, as often posted, what would you do? How could a UI show all the information, and allow all the commands, in a better way?

 

(Seriously. The more/better ideas that get put out, the better a new UI could be.)

I think you seriously overestimate the amount of time doing something as simple as that would take. It's, say, a few lines of code maybe? It's not rocket science to anyone with an inkling of UX knowledge. This company has multiple, multiple games out. They can find the time to figure this one out.

 

He already posted what he would do; add tooltips. It really is that simple. 

Edited February 15, 2015 by Uncultured Swine

[Michael Emrys]

My biggest pet peeve with the UI is the location of the flashing red GO button next to the MENUs button. I try to save after every orders phase, and every once in a while I start to click to open the save menu and hit the GO button instead, which is very aggravating. In addition to separating those two functions on the screen, it would be great if the save menu had its own hot key, like Command+S and whatever the equivalent is on Windows machines. It's hard to think of a good reason why this was not included from the first.

 

Michael

[c3k]

 

He already posted what he would do; add tooltips. It really is that simple. 

 

LOL. Really. I'm sitting here laughing. If it really were that simple, wouldn't it have been done?

 

I know that the programmers/developers have already posted about how difficult tooltips can be to implement. Languages, etc., positioning on displays. Shrug. I'm not a programmer. But, like you, I'd like to have them. Unlike you, I imagine it is more difficult than I can imagine.  

[womble]

My biggest pet peeve with the UI is the location of the flashing red GO button next to the MENUs button.

And next to the "VCR" controls. That needs to move. And have a hotkey assignable. <Return>, say.

I try to save after every orders phase, and every once in a while I start to click to open the save menu and hit the GO button instead, which is very aggravating. In addition to separating those two functions on the screen, it would be great if the save menu had its own hot key, like Command+S and whatever the equivalent is on Windows machines. It's hard to think of a good reason why this was not included from the first.

I'd vote for "<ALT-S>", to go with "<ALT-Q>" for Quit. And the dialogs should do what they're expected to do in a modern WIMPy environment: not show up if they're unnecessary, and give you the option to save if you quit having made changes. There should be a "Quick save" that overwrites itself when you hit the "Quick Save" shortcut, as well.

The "Support" menus need some serious work, too.

• Rather than having an arbitrary listing of assets, have the info cards shift around according to usefulness (currently running missions from that spotter first), and have the order selectable by the player.
• Let clicking on any asset that has a running mission take you to the spotter of that mission, even if the currently-selected unit is Denied that asset, or it's out of control.
• Allow stepping back through the stages of a mission that's being built up, rather than having to cancel and restart from clicking the support button.
• Allow a mission that hasn't had any game time elapse to be cancelled even if you've "Confirm"ed it. It's just bloody ridiculous that you have to leave your fire mission planning til last when you're setting up, and save before you start, in case you make a mistake.

[Michael Emrys]

• Allow a mission that hasn't had any game time elapse to be cancelled even if you've "Confirm"ed it. It's just bloody ridiculous that you have to leave your fire mission planning til last when you're setting up, and save before you start, in case you make a mistake.

 

Amen. And related to that, it has long been requested that there be an Undo hot key to cancel any order just given.

 

Michael

[sburke]

Steve has said previously he'd like to redo the UI, but that he doesn't want to do it incrementally.  I suspect he probably is doing some planning in the background but the biggest issue isn't doing it, it is figuring out WHAT to do.  There are likely as many preferences as there are players.  No matter what BF does someone will be happy and someone else will be posting here that it is the worst UI ever.  The unhappy person will then call the happy person a fanboy and life will continue as it always has.

[TheVulture]

 

• Tooltips on everything.
• And a toggle to turn them all off.
• A user-customisable UI, in colour, element location.
• The ability to remap all hotkeys. All of them, not just A-z and punctuation. Arrow keys, Del, Home, Pageup. Function keys.
• Feedback in the hotkey mapping screen to both inform you when you re-use something already assigned, and (if there are any reserved functions left in) to tell you when the key you choose already has something assigned that will remain assigned (I'm looking at you, arrow keys).
• Scroll bars.
• Basic editor functions (next/prev word, forward and back arrows, click to place, shift-selects) in text entry boxes.
• Double-click functionality in the game menus.
• The option for a confirmation dialog on pushing the BRB, settable for solo and hvh play styles.
• Not having a "are you sure; changes will be lost" dialog, when you've done nothing (edited no fields, modified no map elements, issued no orders) since you last saved a game or a scenario and try and exit it.
• If you have made changes since the last save, the option to save when you exit, rather than cancel and go save.
• Toggles for all the view control modes so you can turn off the ones you hate. Edge scrolling is my particular bugbear, but I'm sure there are people who would rather the screen didn't rotate when they hold their RMB and move the cursor, for example.
• Unit groups that persist past saves and reloads.
• The ability to return expendables to vehicles/ammo caches. This is part UI (you'd have to have a "2-sided" inventory management screen) and part record-keeping (there would have to be ways of adding things a unit didn't originally carry).
• View heights corresponding exactly to the view from the selected unit. Possibly even sub-selectable to the various different views from each of a unit's set of eyeballs.

Many of these could be grouped under "basic functionaliy present in all professional software since about Windows 3.11".

And that's just a list off the top of my head.

 

 

All of which would be nice. But the downside is that that list there already looks like at least several months work to anyone who has worked on that kind of stuff. That's probably 25%-50% of the coding effort that goes in to a new base game.

 

Now as it happens, I agree. I would rather see a substantial UI improvement rather than game engine improvements. But a) not everyone agrees and BFC have to also factor in what will help sell more copies, and most of us only have gut-feeling opinions on what will generate sales and what will generate grouching that people will just put up with.

[c3k]

Haptic feedback! That's what I want.

[Pelican Pal]

Having an in game encylcopedia would also be wonderful. It isn't quite as bad in modern, but please tell me the difference between the infinite number of German tank variations.

 

A lot of the UI as it is now is definitely what I would call "programmer UX" it gets the job done, but it isn't particularly pretty.

 

Of course UI changes are generally easier than most things. However, this is a home grown engine so coding decisions back in 2005 might be hamstringing how quickly any of this can be done.

 

Or to put it another way. In modern commercial engines UI stuff is relatively easy. I'm pretty certain CM isn't running on a modern commercial engine.

[MikeyD]

There is a game encyclopedia. It's called the manual.

[Pelican Pal]

There is a game encyclopedia. It's called the manual.

 

lol

[ridethe415]

My biggest pet peeve with the UI is the location of the flashing red GO button next to the MENUs button. I try to save after every orders phase, and every once in a while I start to click to open the save menu and hit the GO button instead, which is very aggravating. In addition to separating those two functions on the screen, it would be great if the save menu had its own hot key, like Command+S and whatever the equivalent is on Windows machines. It's hard to think of a good reason why this was not included from the first.

 

Michael

 

+1 I hate when that happens

[Michael Emrys]

Haptic feedback! That's what I want.

 

You mean like having somebody stand behind you with a wrench to give you a good whack every time you do something stupid? That's a bit drastic, isn't it? One could almost admire your dedication to true simulation, but...

 

 

Michael

[womble]

All of which would be nice. But the downside is that that list there already looks like at least several months work to anyone who has worked on that kind of stuff. That's probably 25%-50% of the coding effort that goes in to a new base game.

A good chunk of the basic things there exist as libraries that could be plugged in. Or are the sort of project first term computer science undergrads used to get handed when they were working on minicomputers. Charles and Phil are talented programmers (the game is proof of that) and could hack the scrollbar, basic editor functions and double-click functionality in an afternoon, I reckon (okay, it might take a week; I'm being extra-complimentary to the code-meisters). The "dialog revisions" are even simpler in concept, but need a lot of stooging about finding places where the "it's changed" flag needs setting.

 

Now as it happens, I agree. I would rather see a substantial UI improvement rather than game engine improvements. But a) not everyone agrees and BFC have to also factor in what will help sell more copies, and most of us only have gut-feeling opinions on what will generate sales and what will generate grouching that people will just put up with.

Yeah. It all depends on how many upgrades they'd sell with this. And if they didn't grab everyone, would not being on board with the v-UI upgrade mean they wouldn't buy subsequent upgrades either? But it emphatically doesn't have to be all "Big Bang". There are things that ought to be doable on-the-cheap (in programming hours) which would go a long way to dragging the interface out of the 90s.

[Vinnart]

One of the nicer (probably only nicer) aspects of GTOS' UI is the LOS function which shows in a flat color absolutely every angle a unit can see. You don't need to target and point to check every line, the game shows you everything your men can see in one click. 

 

Also i'm sure it's been brought up but a formation control that allows vehicles and units to proceed in convoys down roads. Again, another feature GTOS has that works great. 

 

What is GTOS?

 

In regard to the original poster, I agree those defense icons could use some tool tip text. However,I recall it is easier said than done from a programming perspective.

 

In the mean time a mod is probably the easiest way to improve them, but they are a bit small to deal with. I'll think of ideas for them. If anyone else has ideas please share.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Vinnart

[Melchior]

Graviteam Tactics Operation Star 

[FroBodine]

LOL. Really. I'm sitting here laughing. If it really were that simple, wouldn't it have been done?

 

I know that the programmers/developers have already posted about how difficult tooltips can be to implement. Languages, etc., positioning on displays. Shrug. I'm not a programmer. But, like you, I'd like to have them. Unlike you, I imagine it is more difficult than I can imagine.

 

I'm sure nothing is simple in programming.  But, nearly every game in existence nowadays has tooltips.  Heck, even indie games made by one guy have tooltips.  Battlefront has a bunch of smart guys.  They can add them if they wanted.

 

Bottom line for me - Battlefront is charging top dollar for their games, and their UI is "antideluvian"  (thank you Womble!) and sub par for a game of this quality and price range.

 

It is also obvious that their UI (amongst other things) is lacking in many aspects, given all the mods that come out as soon as a new game is released, to improve at least the look and feel of the UI, as much as possible.

 

I love these games, but I am frustrated with the way BFC is just "satisfied" with their UI.

Edited February 16, 2015 by FroBodine

[A Canadian Cat]

There is a game encyclopedia. It's called the manual.

 

LOL A polite way of saying RTFM

 

I think you seriously overestimate the amount of time doing something as simple as that would take.

Oy! You couldn't be more wrong. Sure if the frame work they are using already supports tooltips then the implementation would be fast. But I don't think they have a third party framework - I think they wrote their own. I could be wrong about that though.

However the tooltip issue is way bigger than that. Lets say you are right and the devs get tool tip support added quick or heck lets say I am write and it takes them weeks. It doesn't matter. Who is going to write them all? And then get them translated. And support and extend them for all time. Yeah, for all time. My impression is that Steve looks at that and looks at all the other things he has to do and has decided to do other stuff instead.

 

 

I love these games, but I am frustrated with the way BFC is just "satisfied" with their UI.

Yeah, I don't thing that is a fair statement. Steve has said in the past that he knows they need to make improvements and he has also said he does not want to try to fritter around bit by bit but instead do some serious work on it at some future date. I did not spend the time finding his post on the subject - left as an exercise for the reader.

Regardless I think one day UI improvements will be coming. But don't hold your breath on tooltips for all kinds of unit info and equipment capabilities - 'cause you might die.