Incredible Footage

[Vanir Ausf B]

The US helped, or developed, an interim bunker buster, which was tested by Israel and can now be used to take out any GBU-28 proof facilities.

:confused: Are you claiming that this is what has happened, or is this just a story you made up? If it is the former then you are going to have to explain how you came about this information.

As for why plant stories about mini-nukes, reference the way UFO stories were advantageously used to conceal the flight testing of the Stealth and advanced recon platforms.

It's your narrative, you reference it. And while you're at it try to find some evidence that the mini-nukes story originated from a government source rather than a conspiracy website that has a hard-on for mini-nukes.

[agusto]

...try to find some evidence that the mini-nukes story originated from a government source rather than a conspiracy website...

It is impossible to find the source of an internet conspiracy theory. Seriously, even if there was a guy standing up saying "Hi guys, i came up with that conspiracy theory first!", how would you want to proof that he is telling truth and not just trying to gain some attention? IMO there is no meaning in arguing about weather the mini-nuke story was intentionally placed by the government or by some conspiracy website that has a hard-on for mini-nukes. The only thing that can be said for sure about that mini-nuke story is that it is not a wonder that it did awake Kettlers desire to investigate.

As for the story about Israel testing US weaponary, i dont believe that the US would send their most advanced weapons to any other country in general (under normal circumstances).

[Vanir Ausf B]

It is impossible to find the source of an internet conspiracy theory. Seriously, even if there was a guy standing up saying "Hi guys, i came up with that conspiracy theory first!", how would you want to proof that he is telling truth and not just trying to gain some attention? IMO there is no meaning in arguing about weather the mini-nuke story was intentionally placed by the government or by some conspiracy website that has a hard-on for mini-nukes.

That is true. But Occam's Razor suggests one of those possibilities is much more likely to be true than the other.

As for the story about Israel testing US weaponary, i dont believe that the US would send their most advanced weapons to any other country in general (under normal circumstances).

No, the US does not outsource testing of domestically developed weapons, although it would be different in the case of weapons developed in cooperation with foreign firms. The US is developing the next generation of penetrative bombs which will be small enough to be carried by a F-35. But it would be odd to assume that Israel is using these bombs in Syria when we don't know if the new design is even out of the concept stage yet, and with Israeli use of their own US-made GBU-28s a far more likely scenario.

[agusto]

Exploring the inside of a BMP that took a penetrating RPG hit:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ab3_1373031808

Cameraman films T-72 shooting at his position:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a93_1372804328

RPG 29 hits T-72, catastrophic kill, turret blowen off:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=180_1372678336

[Erwin]

The party just gets grimmer.

[agusto]

Low altitude airstrike, close call:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=81b_1363633105

[John Kettler]

agusto,

Fair question. Short answer: The facility nuked was deep underground (hundreds of feet) and effectively immune to conventional hardened target munitions, including the GBU-28. The facility was a missile control complex to run strike ops against Israel using en route Iranian missiles. Therefore, in order to argue it's been nuked (very bad for a regime under all sorts of stress), Syria will have to explain to the world why it was getting ready to blast Israel with HY-2 SILKWORM cruise missiles, using a specially prepared super tough deep underground command center.

Vark,

When a NUDET (Nuclear Detonation) occurs, there is a characteristic signal, called the dumbbell, which is detectable and definitive proof of such a detonation. Our NDS (Nuclear Detection System) on the DSP and the GPS satellites recorded exactly that signature. Q.E.D. NUDET.

Wicky,

You can also generate a mushroom cloud by setting off, say, an AMRAAM warhead a few feet above the ground or on it. While the explosion may look the same as a nuclear mushroom cloud at certain points, it doesn't emit ionizing radiation. And if you think I don't know about things like dust cloud explosions, grain silo explosions and such, you are sorely mistaken. As noted above, the key evidence of the nuclear strike lies in what our NDS satellites detected and reported, not the mere appearance of a mushroom cloud. The latter might suggest the possibility of a nuclear strike, but the NDS's recording of the dumbbell signal is dispositive and is so treated within the Intelligence Community. Mind, what's known and what's admitted publicly often differ drastically.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Wicky]

JK You've outdone yourself again. How would a 'nuclear' fireball mushroom cloud form from your claimed nuclear strike when the target was supposedly struck deep underground.

Jamraya research centre,> "Amateur video footage and eyewitness testimony suggested rocket attacks had hit weapons dumps, triggering dramatic orange-flamed blasts."

You forget to mention that nuclear explosions are able to be differentiated by seismic detectors and no Geologists in the Middle East or anywhere else in the worlds have independently reported anything suspicious about the blast in Syria.

https://www.llnl.gov/str/Walter.html

In the contemporary news we have the Canadian crude oil blast.

"Bernard Demers, who runs a restaurant near the blast site, said the fireball that followed the derailment was "like an atomic bomb", the Sunday Telegraph reported."

If you have the hard evidence from your 'top secret' satellite sources rather than your wishful delusions to make you appear special then please share.

[Vark]

Why would the Syrians stockpile weapons in an underground arms dump that they knew was vulnerable to Israeli weapons? 2006 showed them Israeli intelligence would locate them, especially in a civil war, with no central government authority.

[John Kettler]

Wicky,

Your ability to ignore the facts, while ceaselessly erecting straw men, verges on unparalleled. You're the one who posted the dust cloud "fake nuke" pic, to which I rationally responded by pointing out that, indeed, the mushroom cloud effect can be obtained by conventional means. Said discussion was premised on a surface burst or close. In your desperation to discredit me, though, you've now jumped to lampooning me over a nonexistent mushroom cloud from a fairly deep underground burst. That phenomenology is something altogether different, as you very well know.

As for seismic detection of underground nuclear events, a North Korean test which registered magnitude 5 (32 KT nuclear equivalent, per KKI--Kelly Kiloton Index) was detected.

NK atomic test

http://www.ctbto.org/press-centre/press-releases/2013/on-the-ctbtos-detection-in-north-korea/

Kelly Kiloton Index of Earthquake Moment Magnitudes

http://www.english.ucla.edu/all-faculty/faculty/335-kelly-kiloton-index-of-earthquake-moment-magnitudes

A Davy Crockett atomic warhead can have a yield of only a few hundred tons of TNT, making even two such detonations (in case one doesn't go off) potentially well below even a 4.0, which is 1 KT nuclear equivalent. Thus, it's entirely possible the event was below the detection threshold. I've seen mine blasts exceed 4.1, to the point where seismologists have learned to ignore one particular region in California where these are to be expected.

If you have the seismic records for the period of the strike, then by all means produce them. If underground ammo storage was also hit, Earth coupling would be much more efficient in transferring energy than would surface blasts.

Understand, though, that the U.S. government can, will, has and does manipulate, suppress, revise and remove seismic data at will. There are agreements in place with other nations to do this, and the otherwise unhelpful can be bribed or coerced. The Northridge quake, for example, was officially a 6.7, but I've talked to people who saw the original recording, which showed a 7.3. A 6.7 is 16 MT, whereas a 7.3 is 90 MT, a rather major delta. Why lie? Not merely the avoid panic and hide the true level of seismic danger from Californians et al, but also because there's a provision in law here in which U.S. taxpayers in any region hit by a 7 or greater are exempt from federal income taxes! Further, I know someone whose brother is a geologist in the Washington state area. Following the supposed 6.8 Nisqually AKA Seattle quake, when all indications showed a much bigger one due soon after that, those in that research group were told they'd lose their jobs if they said anything of the huge quake yet to come. As it happened, this otherwise disastrous quake ultimately expressed itself as a yearlong "silent" quake, a new seismic phenomenon.

Vark,

An excellent question, considering Syria has been on the receiving end of Israeli wrath many times, with remarkably consistent disastrous results for Syria. You may be interested in seeing the case for an attack Israel was presenting as far back as 2007. Were this not the official view there, it would never have seen print, given rigorous Israeli military censorship.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=397_1178142821

Regards,

John Kettler

[Vanir Ausf B]

Why lie? Not merely the avoid panic and hide the true level of seismic danger from Californians et al, but also because there's a provision in law here in which U.S. taxpayers in any region hit by a 7 or greater are exempt from federal income taxes!

What law is that, specifically?

[agusto]

Therefore, in order to argue it's been nuked (very bad for a regime under all sorts of stress)...

I counter that. I believe that generating a serious external threat (no matter if it is a real one or one that is made up) would help getting the Assad regime more support from the Syrian population. Generating an external threat in order to distract from internal problems is a common political practice to creaty unity within a state and to make people support everyone who is offering them protection (in this case it would be the Assad regime).

An extreme example would be way Hitler came into power in 1920/30s Germany. Back then, Germany was facing lots of serious internal economic and social issues. Hitler created/used several external threats and partially also attributed Germanys internal problems to these threats (for example the Teaty of Versailles, the Jewish Consiprcay, the threat of a Bolshevist revolution in Germany, the inferior races threatining the purity of the superior Aryan race and so on) and offerd the Germans the solution for all of their problems by telling them that he and only he could protect them from these threats. And what the Gemans did was that they willingly united behind Hitler and followed his leadership. Hitler also at least partially relied on external theats to stay in power during the war.

Less extreme examples of this practice can be found in almost every countrys polotical landscape. It even works in small groups, like peer groups, gangs, drug cartells and so on.

Example: A group of 3 young male black friends goes to a bar. Two of them get into a serious arguement about a girl they both want and are about to get physical. But then, however, a group of skinheads appears and starts an unprovoked fight with the black group and suddenly all internal conflicts are forgotten and the two former squabblers within black group unite to fight the external threat. (Note that i dont want to imply any racist BS, like that plack peer groups always solve their internal differences with violence or something like that, i just wanted to create a possible scenario for the purpose of visualizing what i mean.)

...Syria will have to explain to the world why it was getting ready to blast Israel with HY-2 SILKWORM cruise missiles.

That implys that "the world" (or to be more accurate: those of the worlds powerful countries that are capeable of exerting any type of pressure on Syria or Israel, may it be economical or militarily) would accept an Israeli nuclear strike on Syria but that it wouldnt accept Syria building a missile complex in order to deter Israel from agressive actions. I dont think that this a likely scenario because a nuclear first strike would probably be perceived as absolute "red line" for any country on the world. I bet that not even Israels allies would accept such actions. On the other hand, maintaining an arsenal of non-NBC offensive weapons to deter possible enemies from attacking is a very common and accepted practice. India and Pakistan do it, South Korea and Nort Korea do it, Iran plays that game with several other Middle Easter countries, and even the US and Russia still do it although the Cold War has been officialy over for more than 2 decades now, just in order to name a few examples.

...why it (Syria) was getting ready to blast Israel with HY-2 SILKWORM cruise missiles.

That is an interesting question by itself. Why would Syria want to actually strike a militarily superior enemy in times of internal crisis, especially under the premise that you mentioned earlier that beeing (counter)attacked by an external enemy is a bad thing for a regime under stress caused by internal conflics? Seriously, why the hell would the Assad regime do this? That would be irrational. I dont think that (If Syria was really building an underground cruise missile guidance complex, havent checked that) Syria really wanted to blast Israel with these missiles but that it only wanted to have the option to do so in order to deter Israel.

EDIT: BTW before you tell me too that i am ignoring "facts", just like you told Wicky, i just want to remind you that i do not have any proof weather or not those things you call "facts" actually are facts. As i said earlier in this discussion, highly sensitive contacts that only you have access to do not add to your credibility. I dont have access to those sources myself and i dont have any possibility to check if you really do have access to those sources or if they are just a product of your mind. Both is within the realms of possibilty. That is why am i not saying explicitly that i dont believe you, i am just saying that your description of what happened recently in Syria and how the world and Syria reacted does not logically fit into my view of the world.

I checked with highly sensitive contacts, and there WAS a mini nuke used against Syria. The nuclear detonation WAS detected by our satellites, and U.S. Intelligence believes the 1000-2000 lb class penetrating munition contained two Davy Crockett warheads.

[agusto]

T-72 surving a hit:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=809_1373235098

T-55 hit & penetrated (good view of the penetration):

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a80_1373203646

[Vanir Ausf B]

T-55 hit & penetrated (good view of the penetration):

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a80_1373203646

End the ban on firing rockets from buildings, please!

[John Kettler]

agusto,

I'm well aware of the practice, but in this case, Syria's dealing with enemies without and within simultaneously, greatly complicating rallying the people, while also getting nothing like the usual benefits from so doing. Additionally, Assad's caught up in superpower military-political matters, to include a significant Russian presence there and with Putin clearly intent on not yielding that strategic position. Therefore, I deem it a bad idea for Syria to go public claiming Israel nuked her with impunity. Face is a very important aspect of Arab culture and needs to be factored into any assessment, especially something this ticklish and fraught with nuclear escalation issues.

As for my sources, Woodward and Bernstein sank the Nixon administration using careful cueing by one source: FBI Assistant Director Mark Felt. He told them where to look and what to look for. My sources lie in military and intelligence circles, with eye-watering clearances. Conceptually, how do they differ from "a senior administration official said today, speaking on condition of anonymity..." or any other such routine source masking formulation? When it comes to this stuff, source identification is a great rarity, not the norm.

As for nuclear strike claims

http://truthnewsinternational.wordpress.com/2013/05/05/israel-declares-war-on-damascus-syria-nuclear-class-weapons-may-have-been-involved/

http://ronabbass.wordpress.com/2013/05/09/the-unprovoked-israeli-nuclear-attack-on-syria-__55-dead-make-that-10000/

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/05/11/was-syria-nuked/

No matter how you feel about Gordon Duff, the reality is that he has his own sources. Mine confirm there was a nuclear attack on Syria by Israel. Moreover, the confirmation was made using wholly different technical means and provided highly refined characterization of the weapon used.

Additionally, the Syrians apparently (not confirmed by my sources yet, having just seen it myself) sank a nuclear-capable Israeli sub. This alone would bring swift and terrible retribution.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle-east-africa/255749-syria-nuclear-attack.html

While the NDS satellite detections are dispositive, it'd be most helpful to have readings by radioactivity survey teams at the struck site. Such results are highly unlikely to be openly reported.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Alan8325]

End the ban on firing rockets from buildings, please!

+1! I would even allow ATGMs to fire from inside buildings. In CMSF1 we could fire RPGs and Javelins from inside buildings but every Russian-built ATGM and even the Spike was not allowed. I say just impose a chance for casualties proportional to backblast of the weapon and inversely proportional to experience and time allowed to set up.

[Schmoly War]

Update from ANNA. The second video should put to rest the questioning of whether the SAA use infantry with their armour.

English subs:

"The operation in Al Kabune. Part 4. The battle for the road"(Very nice first shot hit from artillery in there).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85AvkpGYp-4&list=UU0-BJmmq9v7sDwoEM5Xao8Q

"The operation in Al Kabune.Chast 5. The attack on the right flank".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mr1-MRRLUE

[Schmoly War]

And how about this improvisation for the SPG!! Hezbollah associated fighter.

Scroll down to see the video.

http://jihadology.net/2013/05/15/hizballah-cavalcade-what-is-the-liwaa-abu-fadl-al-abbas-lafa-assessing-syrias-shia-international-brigade-through-their-social-media-presence/

[agusto]

SAA tanks and infantry. Intersting combined arms tactics part starts at 2:14:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mr1-MRRLUE

[Bil Hardenberger]

SAA tanks and infantry. Intersting combined arms tactics part starts at 2:14:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mr1-MRRLUE

By "interesting combined arms tactics" I suppose you were making fun of them? They looked rather comical bunched up against the rear of that tank as it advanced.

[Vark]

Actually the tactic of two tanks leading, turrets traversed to cover each other, with a third following is very similar to the 'pine tree' formation used by the Soviets in Berlin.

Bil, no more comical that these guys, though their tank is comical!

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/Norway005.jpg

There are plenty of photos and film footage showing soldiers from WWII-Vietnam doing exactly the same tank shuffle, some far better trained than Syrian conscripts.

[agusto]

By "interesting combined arms tactics" I suppose you were making fun of them? They looked rather comical bunched up against the rear of that tank as it advanced.

Haha, yeah they did look funny, like a duck family, but in fact i also honestly found that video interesting because there are only a few around that show infantry combat from the SAAs perspective. Or at least i havent found more than a few.

EDIT: Ducks using the SAAs combined arms tactics:

[Schmoly War]

Regarding the possible use of a nuke by israel; there are plenty of independent syrian sources saying nothing on this. I would take my news from "syriangirl" over most other media and she would not hesitate a second to gain leverage from such an event.

[agusto]

23mm vs. tank = bad match up:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c85_1373699078

[Vark]

Strange, I just had a 12.7mm armed Stryker shoot up my T-72, after having its FC, radio, tracks and targeting damaged, it backed off.