Bydax

I first posted this, from this forum several years ago. At the time I´t was in an unfinished state!
But now, with CMCW. I think its time to go back there! Very informative, but with humor 😃
A short intro, of each family of tank ( Dont forget to "reveal hidden contents") And then do the same as you scroll down. Very funny, and very informative!
 
Communist tracked boxes with pancake turrets: don't you dare to confuse GLORIOUS T-80 battle tank with Kharkovite T-64 tractor that doesn't work. - Mechanized Warfare - Sturgeon's House (ipbhost.com)
 
 
"True socialists of the Ural understood a main problem with optical rangefinder - a worker and soldier of Fatherland had to match 2 images of capitalist in his sight in order to find a range to him. Not only you should have looked at decadent westerner for prolonged period of time during combat, but you were looking at 2 images of him! It is 2 times more decadency per capitalist that free komsomolets should have witness during combat and what is allowed by Party and Narkom of Health!
   In order to decrease hazardous and health problems of seeing 100% more concentrated capitalism per capitalist, Soviet engineers created a ray emitter that could measure distance to enemies by shooting red communism laser to their fat bodies and tell exact range to increase accuracy of firing main gun! This deivce was installed to gunner sight, which mean that second optical device was not needed, and it was removed, leaving only hard Ural steel"
 

Maybe I wasn't linear in explaining my reasoning, I'll try to be clearer here.
0) DOI for the various 125mm APFSDS rounds we're talking about are: 
1976 3BM22
1982 3BM26
1983 3BM29
1985 3BM32
1986 3BM42
1) Ukrainian military and Russian separatists expend their stockpiles of 3BM32 and 3BM42 then get older 3BM22 from stocks.
2) Notice that after depleting their 3BM32 and 3BM42 stocks they don't go after 3BM29 or 3BM26 stocks, but after 3BM22.
My conclusion is that they had large stockpiles of 3BM22 rounds and scarce or non extant stockpiles of 3BM26 or 3BM29 rounds. Why? Because if they had plenty of the better rounds, they would have used them!
So there's a large stockpile of 3BM22 rounds. But when was this stockpile produced? If I understand you correctly your question is: what makes you believe that it was there in the late '70s early '80s?
Well, of course the 3BM22 stockpile couldn't have been produced 1982 or later because they would have made 3BM26 or 3BM29 rounds instead! So it should have been manufactured in the 1976-1981 timeframe and, since we already concluded it was produced in significantly larger quantities than other rounds, a plausible conclusion is that they produced them at full rate during the whole six year interval.
Well, if the website you yourself just provided is to be considered a reliable source (I do think it is and, I presume, you too) I'd like to point you to the following excerpt:

" This was the most common APFSDS projectile used by Soviet Army in late 70s-early 80s, and though no longer produced is still massively stockpiled and cleared for use." (emphasis mine). I presume this statement supports my point, don't you think? 😉
But there's more, see below...
Since you said that you trust these nerdy guys (I do too), I point you to another excerpt from the very wepbage you posted:
"This round [the 3BM15] was in use by the Soviet Army until 1976, and then it was exclusively for export and also license-produced by some nations." (emphasis mine)
So, according to the websites you mentioned, not only the 3BM22 was widely used in the 1979-1982 timeframe, but it was practically the only one fielded!
I rest my case.🙂

The 2A42 30mm autocannon on the BMP-2 in the game has APDS ammo. I presume it's the 3UBR8 round. AFAIK this particular type of ammunition wasn't available for the aforementioned weapon during the 1979-1982 timeframe (IIRC it entered service after the end of the Cold War).
No Beehive ammo for the 152mm gun launcher on the M60A2? Was it a Sheridan-only asset? 
Moreover I dare to say that some obsolete round are not likely to be found in units stationed (or deployed) in Germany during the first weeks of war. I mean the M392 105mm APDS and the 3BM12 125mm APFSDS. In the first case, even if NG units equipped with M48A5 would have been rushed to Europe I presume it would have been a  folly to add another round to the logistical queue (in addition to the two or three available), considering that in the 1979-1982 timeframe even the newer M728 APDS was obsolescent. For what concerns the Soviet round, well, Fofanov wrote that 3BM22 "was the most common APFSDS projectile used by Soviet Army in late 70s-early 80s", so there's ground to presume that also 3BM15 should be rare in the 1979-1982 timeframe, let alone the 3BM12!
And last but not least, I presume that the more modern variants of the T-55 should get the 3BM20 APFSDS (minimum!) instead of the 3BM8 APDS. Let's remember that the mass production of the 3BM25 started in the mid '70s (although the round officially entered service only in 1978).
Thus, by 1979 we have two newer generations of AP ammunition already available for the 100mm D-10T gun to supersede the obsolete (and expensive - don't forget that one of the goal of introducing the 3BM20 was to issue the 100mm rifled gun a cheaper, tungsten-wise, ammunition than 3BM8). It makes no sense to suppose that these rounds were all deployed in some obscure military district in the interior of the USSR, instead that with the GSVG units.

It's truly amazing that you shared your priceless experience being stationed with heavy machine gun behind the lines to gun down any soldier who ran from the assault during WW2. 
Internet experts and war veterans make us look humble and make our lives easier with useful advice. 

But isn't that part of the game?  Should developers not fix bug?  I dread seeing a bug in any CM game mainly because I know its months/years away from being fixed.  There are software and software game companies that are the same size as BFC with just as complex delivery systems that have a steady stream of patches and fixes going on.

By 1945 there were 8,5 millions members of Nazi Party. How many of them were found guilty in a court of law? 
Just for starters:
Wikipedia
Deutsche Welle
Spiegel
As for professor Fullbrook, that you quote to whitewash Wehrmacht, her massage was quite opposite to what you are trying to prove. She complained that the numbers of convicts were too low: 
"Fulbrook, professor of German History and Dean of the Faculty of Social and Historical Sciences at University College London, notes that “perhaps 200,000 people, and possibly closer to a million, were at one point or another actively involved in killing Jewish civilians. And the ranks of those who made this possible were far wider.”
She adds that “The total number of persons convicted under the Federal Republic for Nazi crimes was in itself fewer even than the number of people who had been employed at Auschwitz alone.”

Not saying that you are a Nazi for playing the Germans, I am doing that myself. But it is naive to think that there is not a big overlap between historical wargaming communities and nazis. Even in this forum, which is generally more well informed than others, I see the old Cold War myths of "Soviets just overwhelmed the Germans with numbers" and "German tanks were superior" all too often. And in my experience it is not far from that to the old chestnuts of "Nazis and Russians were basically the same" or "They just wanted to protect Europe from communism!"
Now maybe I am a bit jaded from having to moderate a discord channel where this crap keeps popping up, but let's just say my view of the wargaming hobby has dimmed a bit in recent month because of this.
 

And right here is one of the issues with this forum.  While there are things that CM does that differentiate them from other games, CM is not alone is making "realistic tactical  and brilliant games".  Off the top of my head, there are the Graviteam games, which have a decent following and beat BFC to Steam by close to a decade.  Steel Beasts have a good following of people who use it as a combined arms simulator/game.
I play a lot of tactical combat games, including the above mentioned, as well as CM.  I own every CM game and module, as well as owning several of them multiple times.  Up until five of six  years ago, I played CM almost exclusively as my ground combat go-to game.   But over those more recent years, I have started playing other games as they have grown and, in many ways, surpassed CM overall. 
There are other very good games out there.  But there are people on this forum who are so heavily vested in CM, they are blind to anything else going on.  They have built their online social life around it.  Their hobby isn't wargaming, its CM.  And they will defend BFC regardless of how things are going.  It has created an insular community with a motto of "BFC or Death".  Forum conversations have become very focused on defending CM or BFC against all comers.  The only issue with that is all comers is becoming no comers.  It seems the majority of the discussion has become either John Kettler-like discussions or The Empower Has No Clothes around issues with CM.
I still come back periodically to see what's going on and hope that CMRT or CMBS module news floats out.  But I find myself being less and less enthused about it.  Reading other wargaming forums, I know I'm not alone.  The regulars here think there is only a small minority of detractors for BFC's performance.  That's because the people on other wargaming and gaming forums, who used to be regulars here,  stopped caring a while ago.

And then confirmation bias kicks in which lines up all interventions in one convenient line up without looking into the unique circumstances of each.

We don't even need to go far - there was the discussion about how Russia would remove Lukashenko pre-elections based on his arrests of PMC servicemen in transit. Or how Russia would send combat troops to help him now under the CSTO umbrella, based on the idea that Russia must always act militarily.
But then there were Kyrgyzia and Armenia and their stories get forgotten because they do not fit the pattern.

Tal Othman continued>
Hezbollah fighters moving up, after repelling yet another HTS attack.

Meanwhile, 9K111 operator engages a T 72M. Distance to target: 1300 meters. Missile flight time ~8 seconds. The operator is being encouraged by militia machinegunner.

The missile is fired.

The missile flies straight to its target.

Target hit!

The tank is knocked out. Turret crew evacuates, no sign of the driver - mechanic.

I actually mostly meant about the graphics, which is one point that people have been "nitpicking" about.
But there are games out there where trenches and foxholes are dug into the terrain, where tanks turn at the right speed and leave tracks, where the damage model is more advanced than in CM. Where you can order one or more vehicles to cross from one side of the map to the other by road, and they will do it automatically. Where there's an operational layer that means conserving ammo and resupplying troops becomes a factor. With larger maps that make long sight lines and engagement ranges more important, and where damage from each engagement carries over to the next.
All those things have been suggested for Combat Mission as well, many times. Is that nitpicking? I don't know. But the contrast between the CM engine and what's possible today is getting pretty big. That's the only point I was making.
I don't really want to make advertisement for specific games here on this forum, or start a boxing match.

In service T72B3 with Arena.

How many APS equiped BTR-4s does Ukraine operate?

@Warts 'n' all

Ts4EVER mentioned that it would be nice to see more captured equipment in the game. In response to that you decided to fill up the thread with your chaff attacking him for some thing or another that happened on youtube. If you think that is defending BF (or that they particularly need a white knight on their own forum) please stop it.

If you don't like his content go to youtube and dislike it, unsubscribe, post in the comments section. But so far in this thread you are the one making an unpleasant ruckus and not Ts4EVER.  There are 31 posts in this thread - nearly a full 25% of them consist of you complaining. Yet Ts4EVER is the problem.

---

I would like to see far more captured weapons, and hopefully as modules finally release for RT and FB we'll see some. One thing I've noticed reading veteran's narratives are that captured equipment were found almost everywhere - although I'm sure that has a bit to do with them sticking out in the minds of the soldier at the time. Its worth pointing out that someone is using a PPSH, and not so much all the guy with MP-40s.

 

Most of what I've read points to the Germans having a general issue getting supplies to men at the front, and not necessarily an actual lack of the item. E.G. many German units were understrength not so much because there weren't men to fill the spots - but that the men weren't where replacements were needed.

@Ts4EVER

Do you have a link to those reports, I would appreciate it if you did.

Just because they call it an "engine upgrade" doesn't mean it's more than a patch. Bug fixes and quality of life improvements behind a paywall are on the same level as those silly loot boxes they have in "triple A" games. Also nice from warts and all to apparently completely leave behind the point of "plugging new games", instead looping back to the start, ensuring that the conversation will go nowhere. But I guess at least you displayed what you mistake for wit, so congrats.
Anyway, to actually return to the way more interesting discussion of this thread:
Well, let's look at the monthly reports of different divisions. This time around the late 1944 era, since we are in the Ardennes game forum.
Lastly, for the Red Thunder game;
In conclusion, I think it would be cool to have this kind of obsolete or foreign equipment ingame, maybe when setting equipment levels to low. Some of these weapons actually already exist ingame and the Beretta MP is already used by Germans in Fortress Italy.

I think BF could investigate adding new weapons like these in addition to vehicles. I doubt it would cost many resources, and it would add a nice touch to low-quality and rear-guard units.
I have noticed that many vehicles introduced by some modules could be added to other games. The Brummbar from CMFI and CMFB could find its way into CMBN, like the upcoming StuG IV for R2V.

Christ guys - if you don;t like his videos then don't watch the damn things. So far it looks like TS4EVER is the only one posting anything of interest here. If you are just going to be ****ty about it don't post.

Incidentally your whole view on the organisation of fire support in Russian service appears to be wrong an bizzarre to me, I think this was discussed in the other thread. This is concerning as if you are using modern documents discussing the modern employment of Russian artillery then the whole establishment that produces them seems to be incompetent.
To that end I would suggest reading one of the better writers on topic - Grau, for example this article:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329933979_The_Russian_Reconnaissance_Fire_Complex_Comes_of_Age
or this book for the bigger picture (it is sadly a bit outdated now):
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329934215_The_Russian_Way_of_War_Force_Structure_Tactics_and_Modernization_of_the_Russian_Ground_Forces
For example if an artillery battalion was to be allocated to direct support of a tactical unit (or if an artillery group was formed for that same purpose) then the artillery commander of that battalion would move and be co-located with the tactical unit he supports and would be the one drawing up artillery employment plans and would have direct voice and data link to his subordinate HQ in the rear, with the artillery battalion itself.
This method, while not being the only one, is the one imbeded into the organisational structure of the artillery units and their automation complexes, such as the one you could see above. For the older (than present day) automation complexes (such as the one depicted above) the time within which is processes the calls is 50s I seem to recall.

The fires are called in by the forward based artillery officer, not the manuever unit commander. As such I am not sure how the above is applicable.
Incidentally this is why you get separation between commander's vehicles and senior officer's vehicles down to battery level, one moves with the troops, the other stays with the guns. Such direct and competent control of arty, all other things being the same, allows for faster fires.

Graviteam is not a huge team.  Its a few guys.  Their PR person is the main dev.  He can be a dick, but part of it is a language issue, with a little cultural issue thrown in.  Graviteam responds daily to comments in their forum on Steam.  And they do basically monthly updates to address any issues that come up.  And they are very interactive with their customers on issues with the game and suggestions for change.

Everyone, let's take a moment to give @Sgt.Squarehead a slow clap for his fantastic bait. We already have a nationalist spaz-out in response. 
Telemark Battalion DUI:

 
2.SS Das Reich DUI:

 
Really makes you think friendo. Going to be a Y I K E S from me. 

-You Soviets shoot at our German planes!
-But... They bomb our airfields!
-It is whataboutism! We discuss how you shoot at German planes!

To all guys who said about Russia grabbing something.
Did you ever hear about Russian ship "Nord", that was captured by Ukrainians in Azov sea? Just because she visitited Crimia ports. Captain is still in prison. Ukrainians refuse to release him. I think that you didn't. Am I mistaken?

I doubt that they had some 25k troops, 7k equipment items and 250 helicopters and aircraft in that movie (those are the stated numbers for Cugol training area where the main focus of the exercise would be, as well as PLA/Mongolian troops)

The plan for Cugol trainin area exercsie

Split between "eastern" and "western" forces

Looks like Vostok-2018 main event would be a battle of the 5 Armies, with 2 from Center and 3 from East on a single training area.

You are welcome, but actual Vostok-2018 final exercise would start later this month
It appears that there are also a number of other exercises and events going on, such as:
- large exercise in Med from combined forces from Northern, Baltic, Black, Caspian, Red seas, 26 ships and vessels would participate, including 2 submarines, as well as 34 aircraft. Flagship would be Marshal Ustinov cruiser. The force would be supported by Naval Aviation MPA  (Tu-142 and IL-38 series) and fighter aircraft (Su-33 and Su30SM), as well by Long Range Aviation's Tu160 bombers.
- RVSN exercise, with mobile TELs being dispersed onto their patrol routes.
- Peace Mission joint exercise of the SOC countries held in southern Urals region (so in the Vostok-2018 area but separate from it), video related: