Units spotting and recognizing

[ketonur]

I've noticed that every enemy unit, that have been spotted is recognized at the same time. You know all about this unit, its formation and speciality (even on iron mode). For me its very strange and spoil a lot of fun.

I repeat old chorus but in my opinion in CM1 it was resolved in very nice way (question mark and name of enemy unit: infantry, sometimes tiger showed as PzIV with question mark etc etc)

Strange for me that nobody mentioned about it

[Statisoris]

I also liked the CMx1 way of resolving contacts in steps instead of Unknown/100% detail in CMx2. Since borg spotting was eliminated though, each unit has their own view of the world and their own contacts. How would you handle 3 units thinking a contact was unknown, 3 units misidentifying that contact and an additional 3 units positively identifying the contact? Would everything overlap? I can understand why BF left this one out since there is not a good way to organize that info without massive clutter.

However, I would be all for the old style system if there was a good way invented to handle that info. Also, I really hate that organizational info and very specific unit type info is displayed with contacts even in high realism settings. That stuff just should not be there on warrior and higher.

[ketonur]

In my opinion the best way will be to show the most advanced info about enemy unit that your units gather but jesus, not all details like platoon number, is it battalion commander or company commander etc (maybe if your unit is standing on the same square). Now its a little bit science fiction, are they lookin at enemy distinctions by binoculars or what ?

[sburke]

I've noticed that every enemy unit, that have been spotted is recognized at the same time. You know all about this unit, its formation and speciality (even on iron mode). For me its very strange and spoil a lot of fun.

I repeat old chorus but in my opinion in CM1 it was resolved in very nice way (question mark and name of enemy unit: infantry, sometimes tiger showed as PzIV with question mark etc etc)

Strange for me that nobody mentioned about it

You are just late to the party. Actually it had been discussed extensively. There is still some aspect of FOW as you still do not know the strength on an infantry unit. Could be one guy left from a squad or the full squad.

[GreenAsJade]

It is really quite disappointing, I agree with the OP.

Unless I'm mistaken, I think I'm being shown the panic status of the enemy unit... that's just not right...

GaJ

[LongLeftFlank]

Agreed. I don't even like the enemy casualty crosses showing up (and those can be removed via mod).

There's a FOW mod out there (by Mord, I think) that transforms all infantry icons (MG, etc.) to a generic infantry symbol, so at least you won't be able to differentiate unless you actually click on the spotted enemy unit. Of course, you won't be able to differentiate among your own either.

[akd]

There's a FOW mod out there (by Mord, I think) that transforms all infantry icons (MG, etc.) to a generic infantry symbol, so at least you won't be able to differentiate unless you actually click on the spotted enemy unit. Of course, you won't be able to differentiate among your own either.

Playing "elite" or "iron" difficulty does this with no need for a mod, and only affects the opposition.

[c3k]

Yes, too much information passes on too quickly.

[womble]

I also liked the CMx1 way of resolving contacts in steps instead of Unknown/100% detail in CMx2.

Yeah, me too.

...How would you handle 3 units thinking a contact was unknown, 3 units misidentifying that contact and an additional 3 units positively identifying the contact?

I'd show what the unit can see when the unit is selected, and the highest level of identification when no units are selected, precisely as it is now.

However, I would be all for the old style system if there was a good way invented to handle that info. Also, I really hate that organizational info and very specific unit type info is displayed with contacts even in high realism settings. That stuff just should not be there on warrior and higher.

I think that it sort of has to be there when you don't have different levels of identification of the contact. It is possible for the boots on the ground to discover that sort of info at some point in the conduct of the fight, so it has to be available at some point. As it stands, the only time it can be made available is at the point the contact becomes firm. If you had the various levels of contact available, you could have the spotting engine misidentify a squad as an MG team, but with generic icons only, it has to be possible for the player to know at some level of information which it is.

It's a bit of a kludge at the moment. Hopefully it will improve with later iterations of the engine.

[stikkypixie]

Agreed. I don't even like the enemy casualty crosses showing up (and those can be removed via mod).

There's a FOW mod out there (by Mord, I think) that transforms all infantry icons (MG, etc.) to a generic infantry symbol, so at least you won't be able to differentiate unless you actually click on the spotted enemy unit. Of course, you won't be able to differentiate among your own either.

You only see crosses if your guys can actually confirm the kill no?

[c3k]

You only see crosses if your guys can actually confirm the kill no?

I'm pretty sure this is correct.

[Michael Emrys]

I'm pretty sure this is correct.

Me too. I've been comparing the number of crosses showing up during play with the number of dead and wounded after play is competed, and it appears to me that crosses only show up if you have the guy under some kind of observation by one or more of your men.

Michael

[Tarquelne]

I'd much rather have a more realistic - slower, more limited - access to information on enemy units.

OTOH, I've realized the current system isn't as bad as I first thought.

First, the out-of-place formation information may actually make for a better game. In that it's not really all that useful in-play, but it makes it easier to discuss the game with your opponent or just keep track-of yourself.

Where in real-life the question of how many companies your facing, for example, might be something of deep and immediate concern, in a QB or scenario you'll usually already have a pretty good handle on the size of the opposing force.

(OTOH, 3 floating icons telling you that the three men you see are from 3 different teams or squads can be very useful. Limiting the floating icons would be very useful part of limiting formation knowledge.)

Secondly (and finally) a lot of information can be gained from carefully observing the units during the turn. Not really an option during RT. But in WEGO a player can determine a great deal from studying the individual pixeltruppen.

Ideally the information we're told would match only what's been seen by your men: You don't know a unit's a HMG squad until the guy with the HMG has been seen. But I think the gap isn't all that great. The big exception might be FO units. They'd be (completely?) indistinguishable from HQ units without the "Shoot Me!" binoc icon.

So I think that while there's a lot of room for improvement, the practical effect of the unrealistically high levels of unit info we're getting isn't that great.

[Ranger33]

I agree that for regular infantry units it doesn't make that much of a difference, but for units like FO's, HQ's, and ATG Ammo Teams, it's like painting a giant bullseye on the map.