Nonsense.....

[Pak40]

Quite honestly this should have been implemented in the game. Every U.S. squad was issued wire cutters. It could have been implemented similar to the engineer's command "mark mines" only it would be an available command to every infantry unit.

[Warmachine113]

dont the admin have access to the game dev team?....they could easily patch this up with a small fix..

Give cutters to certain squads..and breach the barbed wire...with slow movements etc..

If I remember correctly in cmbo you could walk on them but it would render your movement really slow...A well place machinegun could still easily pick your troops off..but it was better.

[sburke]

dont the admin have access to the game dev team?....they could easily patch this up with a small fix..

Give cutters to certain squads..and breach the barbed wire...with slow movements etc..

If I remember correctly in cmbo you could walk on them but it would render your movement really slow...A well place machinegun could still easily pick your troops off..but it was better.

Easily? I am betting that isn't a word the programmers would use.

[Michael Emrys]

So what's the scoop on Breach Teams? They've come up several times in this thread with the implication that they can blast gaps in wire. I thought they could only breach walls and hedgerows. If they can blow gaps in wire, can any unit with a demo charge do so too?

Michael

[Paper Tiger]

SPOILERS!! *********************************************************************************

It's the ninth(?) scenario in the Road to Montebourg campaign. It's where D and E companies/502nd are required to push down to a creek, cross the creek, and take the opposite ridge where a number of pillboxes and machine gun emplacements wait in defense.

There is token infantry resistance on the ground before the creek which I have no problem suppressing and eliminating or forcing to surrender. I take very few casualties doing this. At most, I take casualties from the short German barrages when I don't advance fast enough.

Once I get to the last line of bocage before the creek ... that's where things begin falling off. The best way seems to be to advance up the left side of the map where full bocage runs all the way down the creek providing at least half the cover and concealment needed to get across. This approach, however, is blocked by the aforementioned superman wire obstacles and the scenario comes with no engineer support.

Going up the center is obviously madness as it invites fire from the whole range of guns left to right. So ... I've tried the right, which ensures that I'd only take fire from a portion of the ridge.

Unfortunately, however, the superman uncrossable mini-hedges force me to channel up toward one gap in the far bocage which is, incidentally, covered by a wooden bunker. I don't seem to have smoke rounds for the mortars and artillery and I can't naturally throw smoke grenades that far. Also, I've attempted to blast the bunker itself with 75mm and 81mm point mortar fire while suppressing the length of the back of the bocage with 60mm fire while also including a large portion of my force providing base-of-fire support from across the creek just before and during the assault across the creek. However, I'm still going up the channel and thus a single burst of German MG fire can cut down quite a few ... nevermind the overall break in morale in the assault force.

It sounds like you are talking about 'Hell in the Hedgerows' there. Yup, it's meant to be tough but it's nowhere near as tough as the real life mission it covers. Historically, there were Nebelwerfers available for the Germans and there were in the early versions of this mission. But it made 'School of Hard Knocks'* a walk in the park in comparison so out they came. I like 'difficult' but not that difficult.

The 2/325 don't have any Engineers with them but there is only a small amount of wire that covers one edge of the map (yes, it moves from plan to plan and there are four of them) to prevent the player from sneaking right up the board edge: a tactic to which the AI is incapable of reacting to. FWIW, this is supposed to be the most dificult mission in the campaign. It was a historical loss for the Allied side. They failed to cross the creek and they took heavy casualties trying, so much so that the 2/325 could do nothing for a couple of days afterwards.

BTW, you have smoke rounds in this mission. You have a battery of 75mm guns which have them. Perhaps you fired off all the HE and so couldn't use the smoke? And the two onboard 81mm mortars have them too.

*I'm really not exaggerating either. Perhaps I should put the Nebelwerfers back in and release it as a stand-alone.

[sburke]

It sounds like you are talking about 'Hell in the Hedgerows' there. Yup, it's meant to be tough but it's nowhere near as tough as the real life mission it covers. Historically, there were Nebelwerfers available for the Germans and there were in the early versions of this mission. But it made 'School of Hard Knocks'* a walk in the park in comparison so out they came. I like 'difficult' but not that difficult.

If I ever get this Huertgen map done and a campaign built off it, I expect folks are really gonna be put off by a campaign where you win by not getting slaughtered.

[Paper Tiger]

Well, we'll see how popular it is when I finally get around to finishing my Canadians at 'Carpiquet' campaign. You win by surviving. I am planning to make that the toughest campaign I've ever crafted. There will be no compromises made in that one. It will be an inferno.

[sburke]

Well, we'll see how popular it is when I finally get around to finishing my Canadians at 'Carpiquet' campaign. You win by surviving. I am planning to make that the toughest campaign I've ever crafted. There will be no compromises made in that one. It will be an inferno.

LOL you will get roasted on the forum. Looking forward to that one though. I recall a monster CMx1 campaign for CMAK that featured the drive from the beach inland to Capriquet.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

You win by surviving.

That...will be glorious.

[Paper Tiger]

I don't have to worry about getting roasted. Anyone who has read about the Carpiquet battle should know exactly what to expect. Anything less than an inferno would be an insult. But there won't be a 'walk across over a kilometre of open fields through heavy artillery' though as that would be NO FUN to play. I'd love to say more about it. The maps are done and they're beauties. But I've got a pretty big plate in front of me just now and it's not my #1 priority.

[sburke]

it's not my #1 priority.

I will only accept that statement because we do not have the second Normandy module (how's that for dodging the name connotations debate). If it weren't for that I would call you blasphemer.

[LukeFF]

It's the ninth(?) scenario in the Road to Montebourg campaign. It's where D and E companies/502nd are required to push down to a creek, cross the creek, and take the opposite ridge where a number of pillboxes and machine gun emplacements wait in defense.

502nd? Isn't that an Airborne unit? If so, your guys should have demo charges (unless you used them all up in a previous mission).

[Broadsword56]

So what's the scoop on Breach Teams? They've come up several times in this thread with the implication that they can blast gaps in wire. I thought they could only breach walls and hedgerows. If they can blow gaps in wire, can any unit with a demo charge do so too?

Michael

Please, can someone give a direct answer to his question? I'm confused now, too, and would like to be sure.Someone said earlier that tanks and art at 105mm and above can breach wire. What about engineers/pioneers using demo charges?

[LukeFF]

Please, can someone give a direct answer to his question? I'm confused now, too, and would like to be sure.Someone said earlier that tanks and art at 105mm and above can breach wire. What about engineers/pioneers using demo charges?

Yes, troops with demo charges can clear wire obstacles.

[Paper Tiger]

I will only accept that statement because we do not have the second Normandy module (how's that for dodging the name connotations debate). If it weren't for that I would call you blasphemer.

I think you'll like my #1 priority though

502nd? Isn't that an Airborne unit? If so, your guys should have demo charges (unless you used them all up in a previous mission).

Yes, that was my first reaction to reading his post. But after reading a bit more carefully, it became obvious he was talking about the 'Hedgerows' mission. That's a 325 Glider Infantry Battalion mission and they don't have demo charges.

What about engineers/pioneers using demo charges?

Confirmed. The three-man breach team is very similar to a small Engineer group and can breach barbed wire. I 've used them this way myself a few times.

[Pak40]

Please, can someone give a direct answer to his question? I'm confused now, too, and would like to be sure.Someone said earlier that tanks and art at 105mm and above can breach wire. What about engineers/pioneers using demo charges?

Any unit with demo charges can breach wire. It doesn't matter if it's an engineer/pioneer unit or not. Why would it? a demo charge is a demo charge.

[RockinHarry]

If I ever get this Huertgen map done and a campaign built off it, I expect folks are really gonna be put off by a campaign where you win by not getting slaughtered.

I´m struggling with creating hurtgen forest like battles since CMAK and the main problems are that certain aspects of the battle can´t be created well, or not at all.

1. German pillbox fortifications. These were the strongpoint centerpieces, mainly used for sheltering purposes, less oftenly as actual fighting positions, which were outside in trenches and foxholes.

In CMBN troops in there are quite vulnerable vs. anything and once "knocked out" (with the game assuming them as vehicles), can´t be reoccupied again.

What we need is more of a building type structure with 1-2 small loop holes (or none at all), that can be occupied by either sides forces.

2. Deadly treebursts.

Initially germans were suffering less from it than US troopers, as germans could shelter in quickly build small dugouts (2 men foxhole with built in small shelter section covered with logs and earth), that give cover vs. shell splinters and medium mortar (<= 82mm) direct hits.

Since there´s not something like that in CMBN, one either has to rule out adding artillery to a scenario (assuming a bombardement has taken place pre battle), or works around by adding numerous wooden type squad shelters as expedient.

However, these are large targets for direct hits from artillery and a single penetrating hit from 105mm and above usually kills all occupants (team or whole squad). Beeing overground structures, they´re also discovered quickly and offer even more of a target for any direct fire.

Burying them into the ground by means of locking an AS 2-3m deeper than surrounding, creates very suspicious looking rectangular pits

Also the "disembarking" routine moves occupants foolishly into enemy LOS and fire.

3. heavily beaten forest terrain

None of CMBN forest types is thick enough (pine tree forest) to model forest parts, heavily bombarded and thus turned to a maze of craters, fallen trees and branches.

In CMBN, once a forest has been very heavily bombarded, trees simply vanish, with nothing left but a cratered WW1 style landscape. While very good defensive terrain as such, there´s nothing left of what you would expect to be a wild mess of fallen trees ect., providing even more concealment and also beeing a difficult obstacle for movements through.

[Paper Tiger]

You might want to bear in mind that this will be covered in a whole new title and you can bet that there will be a lot of new features that will enable you to do Huertgen better than you can at present. There will be plenty of fights in forests in Bulge but not so many in Normandy.

[RockinHarry]

You might want to bear in mind that this will be covered in a whole new title and you can bet that there will be a lot of new features that will enable you to do Huertgen better than you can at present. There will be plenty of fights in forests in Bulge but not so many in Normandy.

Yep, fully aware of that. Can´t hurt to point BFC to some issues prematurely, although they surely have considered some of that already.

I also wanted to point to the games current limitations with regard to hurtgen forest battles and the like. Doesn´t hurt to know if someone wants to dive into something like that in CMBN (...as I do).

[Erwin]

How do you order an eng unit to clear barbed wire? Assault?

[MikeyD]

The 'Blast' movement order clears barbed wire, plus leaves a cozy little crater to huddle into as well. Only works if they have demo charges of course.

[Erwin]

Thanks...

BTW: Anyone else reported that strange situation where I used two charges per SOP to clear a large hole in bocage for vehicles, but my armor STILL refused to pass through until I used a 3rd charge?

(I save all game files these days, so...)

[TheVulture]

Thanks...

BTW: Anyone else reported that strange situation where I used two charges per SOP to clear a large hole in bocage for vehicles, but my armor STILL refused to pass through until I used a 3rd charge?

(I save all game files these days, so...)

It's been fairly widely reported on the forums about vehicles refusing to use breaches that are plenty wide enough for them. I've not seen any comment from BFC in response to it, and since I am not a beta tester I have no idea if it is on the bug radar or not (or maybe not even a bug - maybe it is meant to be a breach that has too much debris in it to be passable to vehicles).

[sburke]

I have not run into any issues with a vehicle moving through a breach, but one thing does come to mind from the map discussion. If someone puts a hedgerow on a heavy forest tile, the breach will have no impact on allowing a tank to move through it. The forest tile will continue to prohibit that movement IIRC.

[winkelried]

3. heavily beaten forest terrain

None of CMBN forest types is thick enough (pine tree forest) to model forest parts, heavily bombarded and thus turned to a maze of craters, fallen trees and branches.

In CMBN, once a forest has been very heavily bombarded, trees simply vanish, with nothing left but a cratered WW1 style landscape. While very good defensive terrain as such, there´s nothing left of what you would expect to be a wild mess of fallen trees ect., providing even more concealment and also beeing a difficult obstacle for movements through.

And forest fires - during some battles in Southern France the forests caught fire.