Shells agains top of tanks

[rocketman]

I know this is a question that contain a generalization, but here goes: What caliber shell will knock out a tank in general if a top hit is produced? Will any mortar suffice?

[YankeeDog]

Can't give you any definitive info because getting a direct hit on a tank with indirect fire is a pretty rare thing. I can tell you I had an 81mm mortar shell hit the turret top of one of my Stuarts last week, and do nothing more than light damage to the optics. I suspect this was lucky, though, and on average I was fortunate to get away with so little damage. But at any rate, it does show that mortar top hits to tanks are definitely not a sure knockout even to light tanks.

I've also seen 81mm and even 60mm fire cause serious damage to tracks especially on very near misses, so actual top hit effects aside, it's definitely not safe to just leave your tanks sitting under mortar fire.

I haven't actually seen it yet in CMBN, but from what I understand, actual top hits by 105mm and higher were usually catastrophic to a tank in real life, and I'd expect similar results in CMBN. But a 105mm round is a lot heavier, and is usually moving a lot faster on impact than an 81mm mortar bomb.

[womble]

It will depend where it hits. 105mm howitzers definitely can kill Stugs when they hit "Upper Rear Armour" directly. 60mm don't (at least not all the time).

[Bigduke6]

As it happens, in PBEM game I recently took out a StuG III with a 60mm mortar hit right on top. HE, normal concentration. Made a nice big explosion too.

That said, a bunk more stonks in the vicinity of some other SPs w/ 60mm never hit a vehice. Just rolled boxcars yhat one time I guess.

Sure would be nice to finish that game, hint hint.

[Statisoris]

While reading "Tigers In The Mud" about Otto Carius, I think I recall him stating a couple of times that mortar strikes to the engine deck messed up a couple tanks. Not sure what size Russian mortar they were though. Also, I know from a several real life accounts, HE artillery shells 150mm and over messed up tanks and crew pretty bad even in frontal hits. I have done tests in CMBN for artillery vs tanks. In my tests knocking out a tank was rare even from direct top hits from 155mm artillery. Usually the tanks would just get immobilized and all the equipment would get damaged. I noticed in the tests that Stugs, Stuh42 and PzIVs would get their tops penetrated the most often with resulting catastrophic kills.

[rocketman]

In my tests knocking out a tank was rare even from direct top hits from 155mm artillery. Usually the tanks would just get immobilized and all the equipment would get damaged.

Wouldn't the blast/concussive effect of such a direct hit at least kill the crew, even if it doesn't knock out the tank?

[Boche]

Just today I had an inmobilized Sherman get knocked out by an arty shell direct hit, although Im not sure if it was 81 or 105

[__Yossarian0815[jby]]

I killed a panther in the demo with a direct hit on the turret with an 81mm mortar round.

[Hessian deserter]

I destroyed an immobilized Sherman on a hill by, "point targeting a nebelwerfer strike on it, the rounds impacted the upper armour. I did this in the battle, "Die Ammis Kommen!"

[Georgie]

The top armor of tanks in general was very thin. That how the tank killer aircraft on the Eastern Front were able to take out tanks with their 37mm aircraft guns. The Panther for instance had a top armor of 16mm. I recommend that any one new to CM buy a copy of CMBB load it up and use it as reference for armor specs for US, USSR and German tanks. The thickness of the armor and the penetration values of the various guns doesn't tell the whole story but it certainly gives a good starting point.

[Boche]

I destroyed an immobilized Sherman on a hill by, "point targeting a nebelwerfer strike on it, the rounds impacted the upper armour. I did this in the battle, "Die Ammis Kommen!"

talk about overkill LOL!

[Tread Head]

"Tigers In The Mud"

Great book

[Michael Emrys]

The top armor of tanks in general was very thin. That how the tank killer aircraft on the Eastern Front were able to take out tanks with their 37mm aircraft guns.

True, the armor was very thin; however, bullets and cannon shells from strafing aircraft would tend to strike it at such a shallow angle that penetration would be far from assured. From my own readings, most penetrations were scored against the rear armor, which also tended to be thin, if not so thin as the top. But that was more than compensated by the projectiles striking more nearly square on.

Michael

[LukeFF]

"Tigers In The Mud"

Great book

Very nice man as well. He still accepts autograph requests mailed to his pharmacy in Germany.

[Broadsword56]

sburke1959 tells me I immobilized a Stug in our recently concluded QB when I spotted it with an FO and rained a point mission of 155mm right on it.

[RockinHarry]

Since stuff can ricochet into a tank via open hatches when unbuttoned, does anybody experienced a mortar or artillery shell landing through open hatches yet? Maybe some of dramatic kills & explosions come from that.:eek:

[Chek]

I definitely back the hell out when they start coming down.

[poesel]

Since stuff can ricochet into a tank via open hatches when unbuttoned, does anybody experienced a mortar or artillery shell landing through open hatches yet? Maybe some of dramatic kills & explosions come from that.:eek:

I got a 60mm mortar into an M10 (ok - technically no 'open hatchet' . Killed the crew but the tank was ok AFAIK (hello junglist!

[Hessian deserter]

it was not overkill,it was out of nessesity, after my lone panther had been destroyed trying to take that same hill,hill 122 I believe it was. I had originally called in the nebelwerfer barrage on the entire hill. So after the first barrage ends,the next 60 seconds there are no more werfer rounds impacting on the hill so I figured it was safe to go ahead and move my lone Panther on the hill in order to take out that immobilized Sherman,that had been tearing my Infantry and antitank teams to shreads.So then the following turn as my panther is just about to the top of the hill,another round of werfer rounds smash into the top of my lone Panther and destroy my own tank.I made other attempts to take out the Sherman with Infantry Panzerfaust and Grenade attacks but the Sheman repelled them all. Maybe I should have used the slow command for the Infantry at a greater distance from the tank, but it was right on the map edge so I I did not have much room for manouvre

[Michael Emrys]

Since stuff can ricochet into a tank via open hatches when unbuttoned, does anybody experienced a mortar or artillery shell landing through open hatches yet? Maybe some of dramatic kills & explosions come from that.:eek:

Not in CMBM as yet, but in CMBO I watched while a mortar round dropped through the open hatch of an M5. Destroyed the tank and killed all the crew, as I recall. Really bummed me out.

Michael

[Hessian deserter]

talk about overkill LOL!

mr obvious finally figured out how to use the quote button LOL...:confused:

[Sublime]

I've killed many Marders with arty. But thats an easy one. Two of the best was a Puma armored car - 60mm dropped into the open hatch. Devastating explosion followed. Same thing happened another time to a Pz IV.