GreenAsJade Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 In this movie: the pioneers had a blast command to enter the building. However, they run around (and through the walls, incidentally). Lucky for me this time the bad guys were already dealt with, but I was expecting these guys to chuck their demo charges at the building. Any idea why they did not? Could have been nasty! GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 GaJ, probably becasue they were in the middle of a firefight. I just finished some turns of Bocage au Faux 2 and several times when the blast teams had orders to blast, it didn't happen until the enemy firing at them were suppressed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 Sigh - that's a shame. It means it's unsafe to use demo charges if the enemy is anywhere nearby, because there's the risk that they'll rush to the target zone _without_ deploying the weapon that's needed to make the target zone safe. On this topic, why did the ability to use the charge as a weapon (IE area fire->use explosives) go away? GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vencini Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 why did the ability to use the charge as a weapon (IE area fire->use explosives) go away? You can use demo charges against tanks, bunkers, etc. But you can not against infantry units. I would like to take this post to make another question about demo charges: Are the hedgehog destructibles with demo charges or not? Thanks for the answers and greetings 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 The question is "why did it go away"? Why can't you throw a demo charge any place you feel like it, whether there's a tank, building or inf unit there or not.... GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I don't know. In the movie you posted (nice), the suppression meter MAY be a clue. I can't read their morale state. There are lots of ideas to improve the BLAST functionality. It exists on the border between movement and combat. Personally, I loved the CMx1 command with which you could target a tank and have your infantry hunt it down, even if it moved. I'd think pinning the BLAST point to an enemy unit could be fun. A game of pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey with cool consequences. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I would like to take this post to make another question about demo charges: Are the hedgehog destructibles with demo charges or not? Thanks for the answers and greetings They aren't, I'm afraid. Getting rid of tank traps was quite time-consuming, and that was for one star, and most of the time you'd need to remove more than one for a patch to be clear for a tank to get through. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hessian deserter Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I am assuming that you can not use Demo charges to blast Hedgehog obstacles out of the way either, although I have never tried it? I guess that may or may not be realistic, depending on how you look at it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I am assuming that you can not use Demo charges to blast Hedgehog obstacles out of the way either, although I have never tried it? I guess that may or may not be realistic, depending on how you look at it. I know it works for barbed wires. Never tried the other stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Gaj, what map is that in the youtube movie? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 Argh ... some "Small ME" QB map. Is there some easy way I can see what map it is that we're using, now that the game is nearly at the end? I couldn't see it... GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 The question is "why did it go away"? Why can't you throw a demo charge any place you feel like it, whether there's a tank, building or inf unit there or not.... GaJ It would be nice feature that I hope they include in a future module/game. The old "lobbing the satchel charge" trick, based on serious research by watching Sands of Iwo Jima, Battle Cry, Guadalcanal Diary, Pork Chop Hill, etc., was used extensively in my combat days--age 6-12, we'd lob a potato sack of dirt balls (individual dirt balls themselves were grenades), or better yet, rotten tomatoes or apples (Also handy grenades) into the enemy bunker complex (Danny Wallace's parents old backyard shed with very cool adjoining trench-like ravine). Casualties on both sides were usually horrendous, but much bravery was exhibited by all combatants at all times, with all deaths of the herioc variety. The arms race got serious when we graduated to BB guns (with goggles so no one shot their eye out!). Then girls got interesting...but I digress. Yes, we should be able to heave them around a bit more than now allowed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG TOW Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Satchel charges need a little refinement. Can you throw them without getting up and running to the blast zone? They should be used a little more like a grenade or bundle grenade. But in CQC they would be dangerous. Its a tough to balance for a game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Re Engineers and mines... Can they do anything more other than "Mark Mines?" Any way they can clear mines (like in CM1)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Re Engineers and mines... Can they do anything more other than "Mark Mines?" Any way they can clear mines (like in CM1)? They spot mines better and they can mark them. That's it. Actual manual mine clearance or a 64sqm area isn't something you'd want to do in a tactical situation. Mark the best path and maybe lift one or two to give a wide enough track, perhaps, but 'clear'? Not in a hurry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 The Blast command(among other things) needs to be watched fairly carefully in its current form. It is not the on-the-fly, over-the-shoulder thing it was in CM1. I am not arguing either for or against. Just stating what is and how to work with it. By spending the last few months buried in scenario author test mode I have seen things, that while not tested in a scientific manner, have shown general tendencies. I cannot help you in your current predicament GaJ, but I can offer help for the future. The battle in question is a QB, so that meant you had complete control in purchase screen. Use that control to make your force multipliers actually multiply your force. Be mindful and spend wisely where it will do the most good. 1. Veteran Experience, High Morale and +1 Leadership for both the team and their HQ. If you plan on really depending on anyone in that critical pinch, these are your settings. It's a QB, so gamey doesn't enter into it. 2. Rock-solid C2 at time of use. The HQ should be staring at the structure in question and yelling "That Wall! Blow it up!" 3. Unit/HQ Supression. Bad thing all the way around if it reaches yellow. Not critical for HQ supression, but every little bit adds up. 4. Blasting soldier cowering. Impossible to check since there is currently no charge deployment graphic that I can detect. I bet it matters if our 1-to-1 engine treats charges in this manner though. Cowering is related to supression, so less is better. If it is a team deployment code, then see 3. 5. Cover/Concealment at team's current location. Relates to supression. 6. Blast command is followed by a move command that takes team away from area instead of into battle. Those three guys are more valuable alive for the next blast than charging into battle. Their training was extensive and expensive, and they have the charges. Send in the clowns. 7. Combined Arms. Clowns from 6 have smoke usually. They SHOULD be right there. Pop Smoke turn before Blast. It helps in oh so many ways for all concerned. --------------------- Now all these variables accumulate in various and mind-bending iterations, as it should be in a BFC product. If everything I just stated goes just right, things run smoothly. If everything goes breasts vertically inclined, then the most you have lost is a turn as the team cowers or runs away. It is usually something in the middle, where the team blasts just AFTER the assault troops decide to run around the building. Pause is your friend... that hole in the wall is not going anywhere. Hope this helps... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 Great thanks. 6. Blast command is followed by a move command that takes team away from area instead of into battle. I don't really understand this one. If you want a wall blasted, what are you advising? That you set the blast waypoint on the other side of the wall, then set a move waypoint back towards myself on "this" side of the wall? GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 The editor is your friend. Allows one to find out things before they matter. A Blast order to the direct front, followed by a move order directly back makes the team go into the breach for a moment before turning back. A Blast order to an angle, followed by an angled move away and back, is safest. One does NOT have to make the Blast command to the OTHER side of an obstruction. EDIT - The last two screens were taken while a blasting scout team was selected off the screen. No pertinent info is lost by the error. The Breach Team in the view's actions tell the tale. AND I learned something new. Breach Teams will Blast much sooner than equal Scout Teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Nice stuff! Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 You're very welcome GaJ. One thing I forgot to mention was that timing is crucial to proper Blasting assault. KNOW when that team will blow that hole, so the proper pause orders can be given to your assault force. -------------------- Small related hijack... It takes literally 15-20 minutes max to set up a quick testing ground in the editor for almost any CM tactical question. The amount of time spent running the different iterations is variable. Learn the timings and effectiveness of your usual buys in different situations. QB players should use the editor to find your favorite core force buys for most situations. Find out who does what in which situation to your satisfaction in the editor and test battles, then go find out how much that costs in a QB buy, then adjust as needed. One may find that your usual core buy can be smaller in numbers but MUCH more effective with a few tweaks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Also, you can have your friendly assault troops waiting right at the blast site. BLAST does not make friendly fire casualties - ever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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