GreenAsJade Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Has anyone tabulated the artillery delays you can expect for the various types? I recently found to my horror that the Howitzers I ordered come with a 15 minute delay. I'd like to avoid that in the future. Any help, tips, tables appreciated! GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I am not aware of a table. It varies based on the type of artillery, the type of unit calling in the fire and their experience level, so a dedicated FO will always be faster than a generic HQ unit. For example, in "Carbide, Carbide", the U.S. FO can call in 105 mm Artillery strikes in 7 minutes flat and mortars in 3. Don't forget also that the numbers the game initially gives you are guesstimates, strikes may come in faster or slower. Artillery is the key to winning many CM battles, especially as the U.S. player. Where you place your FOs is usually one of the most important decision you make. The first thing I check out in the order phase is always if and where to call in artillery strikes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 All I know is that the bigger the guns the longer it takes normally. Also who is calling the fire and whether there is a TRP near the target is important. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 A 15 minute delay can be a real pain, but I don't really see much difference in delays now in comparison to delays in CM1. I played a game in CMBB, where, by the time I got my FO forward enough so he could direct his fire someplace where it would do some good, the estimated strike time was longer than the remainder of the game. I was very, very sad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Has anyone tabulated the artillery delays you can expect for the various types? I recently found to my horror that the Howitzers I ordered come with a 15 minute delay. I'd like to avoid that in the future. For our edification which howitzers had the 15min delay? That is the longest I have seen. I've had 7 min delivery time and once an 11 min delivery time. In a recent game I out smarted myself - don't do this: I set a pre planned mission on the objective with a 15 minute delay (Long and Heavy). My plan was that by that point I should have my FO in a good position and have a good idea where the opposition was and I would just adjust the mission as needed to take out the most troubling enemy. In an earlier game I had really good success dropping a long mission and adjusting as needed. I thought I was being clever. But as soon as I tried to adjust the mission the delay was re set too. So I would have had to wait 15 more minutes before the adjusted mission would start. I had to cancel the mission and start over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 What gripes my ass is that the various kinds of artillery in the purchase list are not always well differentiated. For instance, I thought I was buying a battery of four 155 mm howitzers and ended up with a pair of 240 mm guns, which as it turned out I couldn't even use. Not even my FO had access to them. What was all that about? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 For instance, I thought I was buying a battery of four 155 mm howitzers and ended up with a pair of 240 mm guns, which as it turned out I couldn't even use. Not even my FO had access to them. What was all that about? Unless there was something wrong with the FO, i.e. he was dead, I can't think of any reason it would not have access to an off-map artillery asset. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Unless there was something wrong with the FO, i.e. he was dead, I can't think of any reason it would not have access to an off-map artillery asset. The only think I could think of—and I have to say I'm not convinced of this myself—is that he wasn't part of a large enough formation to justify such a high level asset. But then, why make it purchasable in the first place? None of this makes sense to me so far. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placebo Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I would like to add air strikes to the debate, as i only ever seen them in pre-planned strike missions, otherwise it seems they are of very little use due the the long delays (the battle as moved on or game finished before they make an appearance)! One advantage i have found with airstrikes is if you select a large target area for the air-strike at least the pilot will pick out a good target not try to cover the whole area like artillery would. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 The only think I could think of—and I have to say I'm not convinced of this myself—is that he wasn't part of a large enough formation to justify such a high level asset. I don't think that is possible. Did you initially have access to the artillery and then later lose it? Are you certain the unit was an FO and not an HQ? If it happens again post the game file for people to look at. I think you have either overlooked some factor, or you have found a bug. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Has anyone tabulated the artillery delays you can expect for the various types? German artillery delay times can be found here, courtesy of Gunnulf. A partial list of US artillery delay times from my own testing with normal quality units: 60mm mortar: 4 minutes via FO, 3 via TRP, HQ not tested 81mm mortar: 5 minutes via FO, 3 via TRP, HQ not tested 4.2 inch (107mm) mortar: 8 minutes via FO, 5 via TRP, HQ not tested 105mm towed: 7 minutes via FO, 3 via TRP, 11 via HQ 105mm SP Priest: 7 minutes via FO, 4 via TRP, 11 via HQ 155mm M1: 7 minutes via FO, 4 via TRP, 12 via HQ 203mm (8 inch): 10 minutes via FO, 6 via TRP, HQ denied 240mm Black Dragon: 16 minutes via FO, 12 via TRP, HQ denied Note: there is some random variation in response times from unit to unit even between units of identical quality, so your times in-game will not always match what I have here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placebo Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Thanks Gunnulf & Vanir the load out info is really useful as smoke is so variable between the guns i am always left guessing whether i will be able use a smokescreen for an attack 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Great tables, thanks!! They are pretty obviously "Elite" times. Would be great to have the same data for Warrior times GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hessian deserter Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Using my FO I had a 13 minute delay with some Nebelwerfer batteries. I am not certain,but I think the rounds may have started arriving a minute or 2 earlier than 13 minutes? Has anyone else ever noticed this? What was also strange was that the rounds impacted for most of a whole turn,then stopped during the next turn,only to start reimpacting on the turn after that. I also learned I could destroy tanks with the Nebelwerfer by point targeting on a given tank. I used these Nebelwerfer's in the 3 hour battle Die Amis kommen !, from the repository 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Using my FO I had a 13 minute delay with some Nebelwerfer batteries. I am not certain,but I think the rounds may have started arriving a minute or 2 earlier than 13 minutes? Has anyone else ever noticed this? I've seen missions from 105mm arrive sooner than promised. There's an amount of variation; whether it's a percentage (so more noticeable on longer wait times) or an absolute factor, I couldn't say. What was also strange was that the rounds impacted for most of a whole turn,then stopped during the next turn,only to start reimpacting on the turn after that. AIUI, a nebelwerfer is a multi-tube thing, firing each tube sequentially. Once all the tubes have fired, you reload the whole thing, so you get 'bursts' of fire. I also learned I could destroy tanks with the Nebelwerfer by point targeting on a given tank. Even 105mm is effective against many types of armour. I don't think I've seen an 81mm mortar hit on an armoured vehicle, but I've seen tanks shrug off 60mm hits. One 105mm on the engine deck is probably enough to have a chance of killing most medium tanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 ...I don't think I've seen an 81mm mortar hit on an armoured vehicle, but I've seen tanks shrug off 60mm hits. One 105mm on the engine deck is probably enough to have a chance of killing most medium tanks. I had an 81mm mortar shell hit the turret top of a Stuart just yesterday. Remarkably, the Stuart survived with only minor damage (optics & radio lightly damaged, I think one or two other systems may have also sustained light damage). It's probably plausible that a Stuart could survive a hit like that without significant damage, since the mortar shell would be fused for superquick and therefore would detonate immediately on impact rather than penetrating as a coherent mass. Not something I would want to risk on a regular basis, though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I had an 81mm mortar shell hit the turret top of a Stuart just yesterday. Remarkably, the Stuart survived with only minor damage (optics & radio lightly damaged, I think one or two other systems may have also sustained light damage). It's probably plausible that a Stuart could survive a hit like that without significant damage, since the mortar shell would be fused for superquick and therefore would detonate immediately on impact rather than penetrating as a coherent mass. Not something I would want to risk on a regular basis, though. I had a Stuart keep fighting after 2 hits from a PaK40 at about 350m, the other day... The third hit killed the tank but all 4 crew survived! They're tough little blighters! Or lucky 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Arty can come in quicker than the expected delay given to you. Ive found that the arty delay seems to be 'worse case'. Probably accounting for a lot of spotting rounds. Sometimes you get lucky and the spotting round is real close. Then that cuts the response time. As far as mortars on tanks, Ive seen US 60mms immobilize a Pz IV one battle, and a Panther another time. Obviously if you pay close attention you can keep this from happening. However when managing a platoon of tanks, with a company of infantry in RT... I couldnt keep issuing forward/backwards orders for the tank, and plus I needed the tank there for fire support. IIRC the damage was to the tracks, not engine. However I could be wrong at least in one of the cases. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I don't think that is possible. Did you initially have access to the artillery and then later lose it? Nope. Big red X the very first time I tried to use it, which if memory serves was during the first turn as I wanted to use it in a pre-planned strike. Are you certain the unit was an FO and not an HQ? Absolutely. Using the same FO I was able to give orders to the rest of my artillery. If it happens again post the game file for people to look at. I think you have either overlooked some factor, or you have found a bug. I'll remember that if it comes up again. For now though, I am trying to avoid buying that particular arty module. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 BTW, a feature request: If it can be coded, I'd like to be able to pre-plan multiple missions for each arty module. I'e., strike here at a certain time, then the same or another location at another time, and so forth. Any module committed to such missions is not available for on-call missions until it has completed its pre-planned missions. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartokomus Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 BTW, a feature request: If it can be coded, I'd like to be able to pre-plan multiple missions for each arty module. I'e., strike here at a certain time, then the same or another location at another time, and so forth. Any module committed to such missions is not available for on-call missions until it has completed its pre-planned missions. Michael +1 for this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Nope. Big red X the very first time I tried to use it, which if memory serves was during the first turn as I wanted to use it in a pre-planned strike. Michael, are you aware that a big red X does NOT mean that the asset is denied to the spotter, it just means the slowest possible response time/accuracy (quality of connection, so to speak)? An asset that is denied has "DENIED" written across its icon in big black letters. I expect you probably are aware of this, but your description is misleading in that case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Great tables, thanks!! They are pretty obviously "Elite" times. Would be great to have the same data for Warrior times Response times for Warrior, Elite and Iron are identical. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Michael, are you aware that a big red X does NOT mean that the asset is denied to the spotter, it just means the slowest possible response time/accuracy (quality of connection, so to speak)? An asset that is denied has "DENIED" written across its icon in big black letters. I expect you probably are aware of this, but your description is misleading in that case. You're right and I forgot to mention that it was in fact DENIED. That visual of the red X just stuck in my mind. I trashed the save file for that game, but as I haven't emptied my trash, I might still be able to find it. I will take a look. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Response times for Warrior, Elite and Iron are identical. Ooops, I meant Veteran GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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