Help picking troops for QB

[Hull down]

I need some help picking troops because my opponent is severely good. So were giving me a bonus in my troops, plus I get American mech infantry and he only gets German infantry. (Map: Attk Small Forest QB-102; prison is the objective; nice map.) I'm going to have to battle my way through those woods, or into the town North of the prison, then take the prison. My opponent has a very good knowledge of unit behavior, so whatever is best for the attack, he will probably have the proper counter. However, he is limited to infantry, but that does include artillery, air support, and fortifications, so I want to be prepared for the worst. Soliciting good ideas--thanks.

[Statisoris]

How many points exactly do you have to work with?

[Hull down]

About 2100 points. Standard rarity. But I'm looking for a not too specific recommendations, just point in the right direction.

[z1812]

My advice is to buy at least 3 Shermans and off board and on board artillery.

Don't waste points on air support. Don't buy any halftracks as the map is small.

Study the map well at ground level to determine the best approaches.

At the unit purchase screen pay attention to the various attributes the units have.

But most of all...........Have Fun!!

[c3k]

Mobile HE chuckers would be good. That means tanks. If you KNOW that you won't be facing armor, any of the 76mm guns aren't the best choice. 75mm HE is plentiful and powerful. Use a 105mm as well. It's more fun!

Germans have good anti-armor units, disregarding their tanks. Therefore, if you put a lot of points into 75/105 Shermans, you may want some cheap and expendable scout vehicles. They can find the enemy anti-tank guns, schreck ambushes, mines, etc. Or use more infantry and keep the tanks at least 100m back from the leading footsloggers. Let the cannon fodder find the hun. That's the way to have infantry fun!. (Sorry 'bout that.)

The rolled hull Shermans have greater anti-armor resistance than the cast armor. (Rolled steel sheets are cut flat; those Shermans have sharp corners. Cast armor is rounded.) The Shermans with the (W) won't burn/explode quite so easily once hit.

I'll open up a QB purchaser and show you my thoughts. That should give you a bit more concrete guidance. It will also open me up to the onslaught of grog's who will decry my every decision!

More later.

Edited to add: I now realize you are limited to Mech Infantry. That will be shown in my purchase choices...

Ken

[Statisoris]

I agree with C3k on armor except I would rely on infantry in the scouting role instead of vehicles. Vehicles are very easy to knock out with a wide range of weapons and thus lose almost all combat value in one second of play. Independent scout teams and or split off scout teams are able to sneak around better and will retain some combat value even if they take a couple casualties. If you decide to purchase some non-Sherman vehicles I might grab some halftracks for extra ammo or HMG unit carriers. Make sure you have enough mortars and medium/heavy machine guns for the suppression role and for possible smoke screens.

[Agua]

Spend points on upgrading the inf. experience to vet and motivation to high. It's kind of hard to tell how big that map is, but with all those trees, I'd strip strip away squad organic MG and go with the heavy weapon's platoon.

[Edited to add the following:] Those little M8 HMC USED to be cheap, due to their size, were kinda hard to hit, pack a good bit of HE. Might wanna look at the pricing of those.

[c3k]

Here's one option:

And another, with more extraneous bits stripped out and a bit more specialized teams added:

The main thrust of both options is maximum infantry with sufficient support weapons. You've got 3 platoons: two mounted, one w/halftracks. Guess which one is the reserve/exploitation platoon? With 3 60mm mortars, you've got some indirect firepower. (Arty would take too long in such a small battle, IMHO.)

The M8 Guns are your HE weapons. Both options have 'em; one as organic, but fewer, the other has more.

FWIW, given a Mech infantry limitation, and the map as given, I think you could do worse than what I've posted.

Ken

[Hiram Sedai]

max out on gamey mortars and equally gamey MG Jeeps. Be sure to do the opening salvo on their setup zone and use your MG Jeeps for gamey flag rushes. Be sure to use your crews to hold the flag afterwards. Be careful, the AI cheats.

[c3k]

Hiram Sedai: that's a name I haven't seen in awhile. Excellent advice for the newb!!

[Hull down]

Thanks, all. Your collective wisdom is now incorporated into a comprehensive approach that will insure victory!

[Tarquelne]

My thoughts are along the lines of c3ks.

One platoon of HTs helps make it feel like a real Mech. Inf. attack, might help smoke-out any AT assets (use empty HTs), and could still be very good for a quick-attack (full this time) with cover from a Smoke artillery barrage. (Probably pre-planned. TRPs can give nice flexibility... but seem pricey.)

Rather than M8s you *could* get M5s. The tank, not the bayonet. You can find them under the "Cavalry Squadron" option, I believe. You lose the .50 cal, but gain a significant amount of armor. Your opponent probably won't be expecting any tanks!

Some good on map HE chuckers seem like a really good idea. If not M8s then mortars.

One slightly, but not *too* gamy possibility is to try and really concentrate on the armor (ACs, HTs, M8s and M5s), getting just one or two platoons of inf. OR forsake all or almost all armor and concentrate on Infantry. In the first case you might over-tax the AT defenses. In the second case points spent on AT go to waste.

A couple of sections of Engineers can help with mines. Though on this map I'm sure you don't have anything to worry about.

Tell us about your attack plan. That might help us with the unit selection. And I'm just really curious, too.

[Michael Emrys]

My immediate thought is that on this map using mech inf is not such a good idea. The squads are armed only with M1s, no SMGs or BARs, so they are down somewhat on organic firepower. The only way to make up for that is to use the MGs on the HTs, but you really need a much more open map with long LOS (at least 250 meters), and it doesn't appear that there are many of those. HTs are fairly fragile and putting them in close where the enemy inf can start doing nasty things to them is not wise. And they aren't really cheap either.

My suggestion is to renegotiate your agreement. Get leg infantry and a platoon of Shermans for support. As for the rest, the advice you have received here is mostly good.

Michael

[Andrew H.]

Michael is basically right - this is *perfect* defensive territory for infantry. Infantry can hide and you won't spot them until they launch an ambush from 20m away. Halftracks are fragile and can be knocked out at this range by regular infantry (tanks aren't much better at these ranges). Hidden 75mm infantry guns probably can't be spotted until they open fire, and they can destroy a squad if they get the first shot. 81mm mortars will also be deadly due to airbursts (although they are deadly enough already).

Basically, your opponent can hide in a well protected location, will spot you first, and may be able to destroy your units before you can reply. Attacking in the woods against infantry is *very difficult*, even for experienced players. And it is particularly difficult if it is a short battle.

However, there are a couple of approaches you can take. The preliminary question is, how gamey can you be? If the answer is, "As gamey as I want to be," the approach is simple. You buy a forward observer and 6 batteries of 114 mm rockets (for a total cost of about 350 points). You run six linear targets over your opponent's setup area and victory location, and let loose with 6 preliminary bombardments (Immediate,Heavy, Maximum).

It really doesn't matter what else you purchase...

If that strikes you as too gamey, buy a lot of infantry and a lot of mortars, plus some more conventional OB artillery. A couple of M8's might be useful, but don't buy any HTs. You are basically just going to have to fight it out with infantry and mortars in the woods; it will be very bloody. But your general idea will be to lead with scouts (split them off from your squads); send them up to recon (with a short covered arc; you don't want them to fight) and find where the enemy troops are. Then drop mortars and use area fire on that location (as they do the same).

[Tarquelne]

The squads are armed only with M1s, no SMGs or BARs,

Good point, and good reason to definitely *not* go with the "all inf." option I suggested above. M1's often stack up well against German squads, but the forest is not where you want to meet a bunch of MP40s, 44s, and up to 2 LMGs per squad.

You are basically just going to have to fight it out with infantry and mortars in the woods; it will be very bloody.

I don't think that's quite true, if the defender can't (or just doesn't) set-up too far forward.

Assuming the top of the map on the first page is North, here's what I'm thinking:

Plaster the buildings N of the railway and near the forest with pre-planned artillery. (What wouldn't be all that gamey... 2x105mm? 4? Certainly a Mech. Inf. company's 3x81mm isn't too much, though I'm not sure it's enough...) And maybe the woods ahead of it a little.

Get from your setup area to the area just shelled ASAP. You might need Smoke (probably

yet more arty. So the fatal flaw here might be you won't have enough points left for a credible attack force.) to cover it from the south. I'm not sure how fast units can get through the woods there, but I think they could get there before the defender reorganizes. You might need to set the pre-planned artillery for turn 5, and use the time to edge forward.

At that point you *don't* fight through the woods. You fight through the rest of the villiage and/or the fields toward the victory area. The defender will have a lot of troops in the woods, and you can expect a lot of fire from the edges. But if you can get some vehicles in the town you have a good shot at out-shooting them.

OTOH, if the defender reads these messages he may concluded that:

A) If you go through the woods you're hosed. Yay.

and

He should anticipate a shelling and quick-strike at the village, and take steps accordingly.

[De Savage]

Here's few more shots of the map.

Artillery and smoke would be good. I would by mortars and shell slow rate of suppressing fire. And then before assaulting prison heavy artillery or rockets to destroy enemy forces.

[Tarquelne]

Here's few more shots of the map.

Might be some really severe bottlenecks for vehicle movement up north, which would nix my oh-so-cunning plan above.

"Mech only" seems like a problematical choice for the attacker - at least in a QB where humans select the forces. A closed map is bad for an American force, since the relatively heavy vehicles are restricted by the terrain and the infantry is poor in automatic weapons. And the Germans with a problem in open terrain: Nothing (besides the rare Puma) better armored than a HT - American HMGs have a party.

Yes/no?

[Agua]

Yeah, if you can get into that village, and away from the front row of buildings, you can likely get some oblique fire zones for HMG where you won't be exposed to the full gambit of whatever he's got on the back end of those fields. You could roll down the edge of the woods with straight foot inf. A priest has the hammer you want, but it's eggshell thin. A few M8 HMC could do the trick once your inf get stalled. I wouldn't bring a HT.

[Michael Emrys]

Like c3k suggested, a couple of 105 Sherman assault guns would be very nice to have.

Michael

[Other Means]

Infantry is only used to spot. Get 105s and mortars with a screen of infantry in front and blast your way through. Don't try to be stealthy, go loud and kill everything in front of you.

Shell suspected enemy concentrations before you get there. It's useful to think to yourself "where will I be in 6 minutes" and call arty on where you will be fired upon from.

Infantry finds the enemy, engages and sits where it is, bring in the 105s and hit anywhere you see contact.

Fun.

[Agua]

Your "severely good" opponent certainly picked a tough map for his inexperienced friend to try him on. Maybe, in spirit of sportsmanship, you should load up on cheap rockets or arty and blast his side of the map to kingdom come with preplanned barrage.

[Hull down]

Your "severely good" opponent certainly picked a tough map for his inexperienced friend to try him on. Maybe, in spirit of sportsmanship, you should load up on cheap rockets or arty and blast his side of the map to kingdom come with preplanned barrage.

Yes, it's true my opponent is cruel and exploitative. And I have begun to fear he may even be lurking on this forum. I better go.

[Magpie_Oz]

Buy nothing, that will mess with his head !

[Hull down]

My suggestion is to renegotiate your agreement.

Thanks, our lawyers have been up working on it all night, and my opponent has been using the vague threat of "a disturbance in the financial markets" to wear me down, but it appears we have reached an agreement where I can use mixed forces against his infantry-only. So look for a rally in the S&P, and mayhem on the battlefield.

[Tarquelne]

Your "severely good" opponent certainly picked a tough map.. Maybe..you should load up on cheap rockets or arty...

Perhaps the rule should be if one player does pick the map, the other player gets to load up on cheap rockets or artillery.

I think that could be very good. At least in this case.