Not as much fun as previous games.

[Johnny Canuck]

Having recently purchased CMBN, CMBB and CMAK, I've found there's pro's and con's to the different interfaces. CMx1 and CMx2 both have significant issues as far as I'm concerned.

Until a major developer decides to create a computer based version of Advanced Squad Leader, then this is probably around best we'll get for now.

It sounds as though Battlefront is going to add more functionality to CMBN, and I for one will be looking forward to continued improvements.

[JonS]

Then how come my wife complains about being too cold when I feel fine ?

That's because you're always objectively wrong. Apparently. At least, you are if my objective experience with Her Indoors is anything to go by ...

More technically; you both experience the same temperature, but one of you considers it just right, while the other considers it too hot/cold.

[Sardaukar]

Well, UI is quite counter-intuitive for CMx1 players. Ability to FUBAR is definitely enhanced, like me managing to Dismount my tank crews regularly when trying to order Hunt. Often bit too late to remedy as WEGO player.

But while I skipped CMSF series for lack of interest, CMBN has good potential. Pity that UI is rather bad (IMHO), camera controls are mediocre and general lack of feedback about combat deducts some from the enjoyment.

But still well-worth the $55 and gameplay is more intensive and immersive than in CMx1.

[HintJ]

I'm willing to donate $20,000 for someone to make a decent Close Combat game. Seriously.

[DaveDash]

I found the game hard to get into. But after playing through the short training campaign (Task Force Raff?) the game went from "meh" to epic.

I suggest what others have said. Give it a bit longer and see what happens.

[Waaarg]

Well, UI is quite counter-intuitive for CMx1 players. Ability to FUBAR is definitely enhanced, like me managing to Dismount my tank crews regularly when trying to order Hunt. Often bit too late to remedy as WEGO player.

i have gotten in the habit of hitting B (FAST) before pressing any move hotkey. B will always switch to the movement orders tab. I also do this for the second tab of the orders interface, I hit T (TARGET), before the order hotkey I want to use.

This saved a lot of mistakes, and is a lot faster, for me anyhow, than using the mouse to manually issue orders, or the spacebar.

Example: to issue a hunt order, I hit B then K

To issue a target light, I hit T then Y

[medlinke]

I appreciate all feedback about the game because it usually stimulates some form of discussion and a relative middle ground is typically discovered that gives credence to the OP while pointing out some weaknesses in their initial assessment of things.

In this case I have to admit that I see this coming together as it has in the past.

There is a big change between CMx1 and CMx2 series games. The engine is flat out different and more of the tactical detail was appreciated and exposed.

For example, in CMx1 you could very easily assault and attack a position by throwing troops at your problems to pin them and then moving in risky ways toward your objective. In the CMx2 series you get punished for this behavior and because you're not seeing the target lines and other game screen contextual information that players relied upon in CMx1 (myself included) it's more difficult to ascertain where you may have gone wrong.

The inclusion of the Real Time mode was one that a lot of players had asked for in CMx1 engine. There is A LOT going on under the hood that requires a lot of tactical micromanagement in CMx2. So, whereas people had very little to worry about in CMx1 for their less than optimal play it was conceivable that they could easily manage everything in Real Time. In fact, many WEGO turns consisted of offering very few orders while your troops whithered away their opposition.

In CMx2 there's just that much more information to deal with. LOS, movement speeds, accuracy, damage, terrain, available orders, etc. are all more complicated. The real time option presents a real world problem in CMx2...how do you effectively coordinate your movements and (more importantly) combat stance orders while your opponent (who is no slouch) does the same but with a brain that can compute far more data at a far faster rate than the human mind?

In short...try WEGO and take it slow. You're not playing CMx1 upgraded to CMx2. You're playing a full evolutionary step in the game engine that shares a name and pedigree with CMx1 games...is it's own unique and tactically challenging game.

Approach it as though you've never played CMBO => CMAK and you're going to discover that those tedious things are livable. You'll memorize the hotkeys for every order. You'll get to the point where you can more easily read the terrain and combat stances of your enemy and be able to exploit it.

[Steiner14]

Which is odd, because I've never really had a problem with this apparently objective fact. In either CMx1, or CMx2.

In CMx1 you had targeting lines.

Now i'm thrilled to hear, how you are being informed in CMx2, that one of your precious tanks is engaging another tank and could need your attention.

[Magpie_Oz]

That's because you're always objectively wrong. Apparently. At least, you are if my objective experience with Her Indoors is anything to go by ...

Yes of course I was forgetting the first law of wedded bliss, She is always right.

The second law being : If She is wrong refer rule 1.

[Magpie_Oz]

Now i'm thrilled to hear, how you are being informed in CMx2, that one of your precious tanks is engaging another tank and could need your attention.

CRACK ! BOOM ! WTF was that !

see easy, you don't need lines just eyes and ears.

I love the realism that this new module has as I find it make the game more absorbing as you have to be alert to what is going on.

[Blackcat]

"Until a major developer decides to create a computer based version of Advanced Squad Leader, then this is probably around best we'll get for now."

Do you want to reflect on that comment, Mr. Canuck? I mean really think about what you said.

[Magpie_Oz]

Until a major developer decides to create a computer based version of Advanced Squad Leader, then this is probably around best we'll get for now.

Ummmm ......... is ....... isn't that .... what Combat Mission ...... is ???

[Sardaukar]

CMBO was called BSL (Beyond Squad Leader) in developement phase when Battlefront was called BigTimeSoftware.

[Hiram Sedai]

if you add "in my modest opinion" to such statements they become more reasonable.

Cheers

BDH

but if you add "in my hirsute opinion" the veracity is inherent and coupled with some furry shoulders. I may not be welcome to opine but its difficult to argue my point.

[JonS]

In CMx1 you had targeting lines.

Now i'm thrilled to hear, how you are being informed in CMx2, that one of your precious tanks is engaging another tank and could need your attention.

Tell you what - how's about you actually look at the objective interface for once and tell ME the answer? It's objectively there, it's objectively pretty obvious, and it objectively tells you exactly what you're after.

[Mord]

I'm willing to donate $20,000 for someone to make a decent Close Combat game. Seriously.

Limit your forces to a platoon and play real time...you've got a better than decent Close Combat. You can send the 20 grand to my Pay Pal.

And who ever said they shouldn't have named the CMX2 engine after Combat Mission is CRAAAAAAZY. It's the best damned war game name ever! And the engine is a way worthy successor to the old games...

Mord.

[Magpie_Oz]

Tell you what - how's about you actually look at the objective interface for once and tell ME the answer? It's objectively there, it's objectively pretty obvious, and it objectively tells you exactly what you're after.

OBJECTION !

[Johnny Canuck]

Ummmm ......... is ....... isn't that .... what Combat Mission ...... is ???

Not sure how you misunderstood what I said.

CM is about the best computer adaptation of ASL I've seen. That being said, a major development house could do a LOT better. So, as I said . . .

"Until a major developer decides to create a computer based version of Advanced Squad Leader, then this is probably around best we'll get for now."

[DaveDash]

Lol you're kidding yourself.

A major developer would make it 10 hours playability, Xbox/PS3 friendly, and dumbed down so a retarded monkey could play it.

[JonS]

Your nirvana is a straight port of a 25 year old boardgame game into the PC, with no changes? But it has to be by a 'major developer'?

Um ... ok. Noted. 40m hexes, here we come!

[Mord]

Hasbro made a Squad Leader game. They are pretty major...

Mord.

[Fenris]

Bit late to the thread but... Best thing I did was change the keys from relative to whatever it's called when the key somewhat matches the command, the alternate hotkeys file takes care of most of this. It's a huge help and I found this one of the biggest things helping me transition from CM1.

-F

[Johnny Canuck]

Your nirvana is a straight port of a 25 year old boardgame game into the PC, with no changes? But it has to be by a 'major developer'?

Um ... ok. Noted. 40m hexes, here we come!

Straight port, no. A lot more development money and a larger team, yes.

The vision behind CM has a LOT of potential, but I think it has a long way to go before it gets there at Battlefront.

[Paper Tiger]

gautrek

It's been a long time since I first fired up CMBO but I can still remember how difficult it was to manage the camera and issue commands, etc for the first few playthroughs. Because I was a real ASL fan, I was willing to put in the hard work to learn how to master the thing and eventually, I got it.

It wasn't that different when I first fired up CMSF either. It look a long time to get a feel for the interface and the camera controls. I guess BFC are masters at creating great wargames with less-than-optimal user interfaces. You get used to them eventually and once you have mastered them, they become second nature. But it's work doing so and it was work in CMBO too. Give it another week or so.

[Magpie_Oz]

Straight port, no. A lot more development money and a larger team, yes.

The vision behind CM has a LOT of potential, but I think it has a long way to go before it gets there at Battlefront.

I can't imagine what would be better if a larger development house took up the game but as previously noted, more resources on a project require a greater return for the investment and ergo a wider market appeal so the very things that makes ASL/CM unique will be lost.