The Carillon Nose (137th Infantry) - Campaign In Progress

[Erwin]

Wodin: I would research that first. I read that over 1GB of Video Ram can be a waste (depending on the exact software etc) and that it's largely a marketing ploy.

[Sgt Schultz]

Would a pair of 1GB vidcards in SLI help render any part of CMBN better/faster/more reliably?

Not that I would make battles that ONLY those machines could handle ...

On map size versus loading ...

If you want an armor duel it may help to make a 1.5Km(or less) X 3 Km map with more than usual open terrain. This allows for at-range engagements without making a comp-killer.

Max size master maps just won't load on a lot of machines with more than the minimum placeholders described above. I think it may be better to slice right away to reduce frustration and design/load times. Every design change requires a load to check/test. Slice each battle to it's smallest size before getting all detailed, and the labor of love becomes more love and less labor.

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[Broadsword56]

Would a pair of 1GB vidcards in SLI help render any part of CMBN better/faster/more reliably?

Not that I would make battles that ONLY those machines could handle ...

On map size versus loading ...

If you want an armor duel it may help to make a 1.5Km(or less) X 3 Km map with more than usual open terrain. This allows for at-range engagements without making a comp-killer.

Max size master maps just won't load on a lot of machines with more than the minimum placeholders described above. I think it may be better to slice right away to reduce frustration and design/load times. Every design change requires a load to check/test. Slice each battle to it's smallest size before getting all detailed, and the labor of love becomes more love and less labor.

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Let us all know if that size you mentioned actually works once you detail it, Schultzie. I work your example out to be 188 x 375 action squares, for a total of 70,500 action squares. My own master-map and submap adventures seem to suggest 25,000 action squares is close to the limit of what the game can handle for a really detailed bocage map -- probably could be more if you've got fewer hedgerows and are fighting in better tank country (like Caen to Falaise).

Using my hypothetical threshold, your 3.5 km tank map would need to skinny down to about 533 meters to work well. But I'd love to hear that someone is making it wider than that and having full battalions fight with no problem.

Nothing wrong with a long and very skinny map, mind you -- reminds me of those old Panzerblitz scenarios where you'd line up all the boards end to end for an armored spearhead to thunder through (what was the name of that poor, endlessly fought-over little village again?) Belogrod?

[Sgt Schultz]

I would think that there could be little to no bocage on any larger map. I was thinking more along the lines of a CMBB adaptation of steppe-like terrain.

Lots of small terrain undulations with a LOT of VT Grass and Wheat fields to hold all the armor and AT teams.

I would think that 2-3 Companies of armor with a Company of mounted Infantry could take on a semi-fixed heavy company with ATG and armor support. I'll check tomorrow.

[LongLeftFlank]

Not much time to spare for gaming these days, but I have finally finished the all-important field outlines for my Le Carillon-La Meauffe master map: 2736w x 2816 h. The little yellow squares are orchards, the dark green are woodlands. I haven't actually laid hedgerow objects yet, as that would make the map crash -- the outline is the "Weeds" ground type (so I don't have to delete all of them). 90% of the buildings are present as placeholder structures.

My source material is primarily the 1947 aerial imagery together with the St Fromond one sheet. The German fortified area depicted in the famous Green Book map lies just south of that barren "triangle" in the lower center of the map.

I eagerly await the next patch to see whether BFC is able to do anything with the OOM problems before I decide how much detail to add. Ideally, I'd like to be able to render the various depressions (railbeds/embankments, streambeds, draws) in some detail on the master while remaining loadable. I'd also like to do the major settlements in some detail, although I can leave that for the submaps if need be.

Alas, I doubt anyone will be able to load a battle using the entire map, which is a pity, as it contains the full regimental frontage for the 137th Infantry (and defending 897 Grenadiere) for the entire 5 day battle of 11-15 July. The battalions fought shoulder to shoulder, and often overlapped, so you lose a good bit of the bigger operational picture when you have to hack the map up into isolated battalion actions.

[Sgt Schultz]

That is an awesome achievement LLF!

Just making a fictional 1km X 2km map was an effort for me.

I would suggest as a work-around... delete all 'secondary' bocage rows to consolidate fields.

Larger fields, and maybe just lose the rows that weren't brimming with Germans.

Then pick a part of the actual battle that happened near the center of the map, and detail that a tad more.

More or less a level of detail with distance tweak. The farther from the action, the less stuff there is on the map.

I would think there were a few more or less primary boundary rows/roads/etc that could be used as detail demarcation lines.

Mod a poster to display "Beyond This Point There Be Placeholders" - in French of course.

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[Broadsword56]

Outstanding work, LLF!!!

Can't wait to get this!

I think you took exactly the right approach with this master map -- weeds as borders, placeholder buildings, basic enough to avoid crashes but detailed enough to make it easy and quick to break into detailed battle submaps.

Here's a suggestion on the ditches and depressions and elevations you wish you could include: How about drawing them on a JPEG and including them in a readme with the map file, so that anyone making submaps would at least know where they are supposed to go and be able to place them? That way, all your meticulous research could still be put to good use.

I know we all wish a map like this could run in full detail. But -- if it's any consolation -- this isn't actually as much of a problem in bocage fighting.

As historians and commanders of the time have said, the July battles were really "a battalion commander's war." So even if battalions were adjacent/overlapping, they really couldn't coordinate their actions very effectively in the time scale of CMBN battles.

If a submap battle takes place in an area where two battalions overlapped, we can just include elements of both battalions in the OOB, along with their command HQs. The player would have more challenges with C2 than if there were one command with one HQ, but that would be realistic.

[Broadsword56]

LLF, it's your map and your choice which direction to go with it, but I have to disagree with Sgt. Schultz on this -- please, please don't distort the authenticity of the map for the sake of trying to making it playable. The whole point of a "master map" concept IMHO is to serve as a template and a guide for accurate battle maps and campaigns. Taking out the placeholder lines of weeds does nothing to make the map load any better, but it would erase things that existed on the battlefield -- and if you're going to do that, what was the point of all that research and line-drawing? Let someone else edit their own copy of your master map and make a fictional one out of it, if that's what they want to do.

[LongLeftFlank]

No fear; as you know, I come from the "no compromises" school of map design. I like to fight in the boots of the tactical commanders as much as a game can allow.

[Sgt Schultz]

Oh, I wasn't thinking of taking out the weed lines, just the actual bocage/terrain that lay outside the battle zone.

Bocage the main roadsides and major fields, and weed the rest.

Maybe detail smaller outer areas that have FO/other units on them.

[Broadsword56]

Oh, I wasn't thinking of taking out the weed lines, just the actual bocage/terrain that lay outside the battle zone.

Bocage the main roadsides and major fields, and weed the rest.

Maybe detail smaller outer areas that have FO/other units on them.

OK, sorry -- I understand now. Yes, that was my intention with the 4x4 km master map I posted, but even that turned out to be too much for CMBN to handle. Ultimately, there was no alternative for battles other than to cut down the master map to about a battalion's area. On the plus side, that size of map can be detailed to your heart's content.

[LongLeftFlank]

Still plodding ahead on this project, although I am hampered by frequent 36% OOM crashes on both my PCs. It is my intent to model the layouts of the various settlements in as much detail and fidelity as possible on the master map (though not flavour objects). That way, it will be relatively simple to finish the scenario submaps by laying down the bocage checkerboard and related vegetation and deepening the irrigation ditches.

I have confirmed that what the engine has the biggest trouble coping with is ditches or any other kind of steep-sided embankment, including large amounts of bocage. Vegetation and buildings haven't proved to create a noticeable problem yet.... they just add to the load time.

As to fidelity, check this out:

View north up the road leading out of La Germainerie (the "newer" northern part of La Meauffe, clustered around the dairy and railway station). The reason the marsh weeds stick up through the little bridge is that I can't deepen the irrigation ditch they're in without crashing the map (that'll happen on the submap -- the ditches will also be lined with vegetation.

And the corresponding Google Maps image of the same spot today:

And here is an overhead view of the same farmstead, looking southeast toward part of the German-defended rise.

The upper windows of that barn could make a dandy perch for a FO, as he can both look right into the town (SW - not visible in this shot) and across the valley at the German MLR. This spot is one of the few "elevations" available to the Americans early on.

The outline of the bocage fields isn't visible at this resolution, but those dark green lines are irrigation streams/ditches -- good cover, but tough slogging. And Jerry can be expected to have them both zeroed and possibly mined.

[sburke]

Beautiful work, seriously.

Something tells me that barn isn't going to be a healhty place for anyone much less your FO.

[Ithikial_AU]

Absolutely awesome. Would love to play a campaign on a single map like this. Scope of it sort of reminds me of the Carentan campaign back in CMBO.

A while ago you wanted to test video cards and this master map? Here is my computer specs, let us know if you want some help.

i7 Quad Core 2.67ghz

6 mb RAM

GTX580 Nivida Graphics Card (1.5gb of Vram)

My copy of CMBN is kept on a 300 gb Raptor hard drive.

[LongLeftFlank]

Thanks. Once I've finished La Meauffe, I am going to flesh out a stand-alone submap scenario depicting the original (re)capture of the eastern part of the town by 1/119th Infantry on June 18, as described in the battalion journal:

18 June. The 119th Infantry sent one platoon to La Meauffe to relieve one platoon of the 175th Infantry, but upon entering the town found it occupied by enemy. At daylight on the 18th, Company "B" was sent to occupy the town, and at the close of operations, la Meauffe east of the RR track was occupied by the 1st Battalion.

0500 175 Inf moved out of La Meauffe before the 1st Bn relieved them. Enemy moved in and 1st Bn unable to move into this point. Skirmished all during the night. 119 began attack 0530 this morning to take this point.

1200 Col McDaniels requested that the Bn of the 119th Infantry move and occupy high ground south of La Meauffe

1845 Inf jeep blown up. La Meauffe in our hands 1840.

1945 Civilians state that Germans have mined road at 493762 reported by K Co.

2000 La Meauffe - counterattack in progress. 49537280 - house with IGs and snipes being fired on.

469775 - Enemy CP in house, Ln 1, 1940. 433763 suspected battery position fired on.

2040 Town of La Meauffe is now in our hands. Enemy is still in outskirts.

[LongLeftFlank]

More screens, for those interested. Also hoping to provide inspiration to other map designers to make their buildings and settlements look a little more Norman.

First up, the Laiterie Claudel, a Calvados distillery at the north edge of La Meauffe that had converted to making Camembert. Another potential OP for the US, although the actual factory had a tall smokestack (not rendered here since I don't want troops climbing such a structure) that was a German aiming point.

The sleepy little railway station:

One of the farmsteads along the main road to the fortified church. Although the viewpoint is elevated to show the Vire landscape (sans vegetation), notice how the buildings are "sunk" slightly behind the hedgerow enclosures rather than sticking out way above them. Medieval Norman farmers preferred shelter from the elements to a "room with a view".

[permanent666]

i really like what you show to us but

i would suggest that you use more red roofs, because i read that they used the red clay from the marshes in this area for their roofs

[handihoc]

Excellent work, LLF.

I'm really looking forward to the final, problem free release of this one, and have just ordered a new monster rig which - I hope! - will give me problem free, mighty map performance when it is released.

Stay on it, dude!

[LongLeftFlank]

i really like what you show to us but

i would suggest that you use more red roofs, because i read that they used the red clay from the marshes in this area for their roofs

Merci for the info, but the CMBN building set isn't quite that granular. For the Modular building types, the in-game roofing options are restricted to a single option (see my Buildings Gallery thread for more on this). To sum it up:

- The large square structures and the medium (2 x 1 square) rectangles have metal roofs. Also, on the latter, if you ctrl+click the roof the chimney will switch to the other end.

- The large rectangles and small square (1x1) have black roofs, although the "diagonal variant" on the former has a metal roof.

- The medium squares and small rectanges have red roofs

In contrast, the Independent buildings do allow you to toggle the roof colour.

At some point, I might try to mod up some additional rural building textures, but no time for that right now.

Also, Broadsword56 posted a useful little guidebook to traditional Norman architecture. It notes differences between techniques and construction materials used in the marshlands (nearer the beaches) vs those in the higher ground of the St Lo area. For example, mud walls (mud applied to a framework of wood and straw matting) is a lot more common in the lowlands, while fieldstone is more common in the uplands.

[Broadsword56]

More outstanding work as usual, LLF!

I really like the "sunken" farm compound behind a bocage perimeter -- a look I now plan to steal for my own maps.

[LongLeftFlank]

The infamous "Gestapo chateau" at St Gilles. With its thick walls "studded with MGs" and commanding fields of fire, this complex anchored the right wing of the German defense along the Vire river. It had to be close assaulted over 2 days by two US battalions supported by TDs. The Cherbourg - St Lo railway cut is visible in the background.

The opposite view, showing the gentle slope of the grounds to the Vire towpath (those fields will of course be mined and wired). Note that the already shell-resistant properties of the Cathedral building type have been further enhanced with "decorative" high and low bocage. This also limits the number of access points to the main chateau. A stables and paddock is visible on the left.

I wanted a suitable terrace for the guesthouse overlooking the river. A 24m Urban bridge does very nicely. I will playtest this to ensure it doesn't do bizarre things to infantry movement.

[Sgt Schultz]

The bridge trick is awesome.

Nothing I like better than to find a way to tweak the editor into something new.

[LongLeftFlank]

On to the next settlement: Vermanoir la Meauffe and Eglise St Martin, linchpin of the German blocking position along the main road.

According to the 137th unit history, the thick-walled sandstone church and cemetery "bristled with firepower and atop the bell tower was a German machine gun nest that commanded the approaches to the area. Close behind the church was a chateau, another thick-walled building with excellent facilities for fortification. To this building the enemy added embellishments of his own devising. A labor battalion of impressed Russians had been forced to build heavy reinforcements and a bomb shelter of concrete with walls three feet thick." Moreover "every house and shop had been converted by the Germans into individual pillboxes."

Here is a (low res) aerial shot of the village:

A slightly farther away shot shows the thorny tactical problem assaulting this village poses for the US: with the road bridge across the St Martin stream blown, there's no easy way to get armour in close for direct fire. The position is anchored on its left by the Vire and on the right by open fields; the far right flank and rail cut are covered by the St Gilles chateau and AT guns. There's a reason this place was dubbed "Purple Heart Corner".

[LongLeftFlank]

[Smeel]

Looks really amazing!