Demo no workie on my MacBook Pro

[TexasToast]

Hi Phil,

Running on a brand new MacBook Pro, mostly seems fine and looks like a great job. However I did have a crash at the end of calculating a turn - are you interested in crash reports?

TT

[Guest]

We sure are! Thanks.

[Fetchez la Vache]

Well I must admit to being a wee bit nervous about running this on my 4 year old Mac Pro. But currently running at 1600x1200 with everything turned up. So no need for that i7 iMac just yet... although fingers crossed for bigger maps.

I'll stop looking for the windowed option. :-)

However should I be able to alt-tab to other applications whilst running the demo/game? I can't seem to be able to do this. Pity because I was hoping to be able to have the manual there on my other screen ready to be flipped through...

I would like to thank you Phil for helping put CMBN back to the true home of Combat Mission. :-)

[Erik Springelkamp]

Well I must admit to being a wee bit nervous about running this on my 4 year old Mac Pro. But currently running at 1600x1200 with everything turned up. So no need for that i7 iMac just yet... although fingers crossed for bigger maps.

I'll stop looking for the windowed option. :-)

However should I be able to alt-tab to other applications whilst running the demo/game? I can't seem to be able to do this. Pity because I was hoping to be able to have the manual there on my other screen ready to be flipped through...

I would like to thank you Phil for helping put CMBN back to the true home of Combat Mission. :-)

Don't know about Macs, but on Windows I can only alt-tab out of the game when I have another window active, not just the empty desktop.

In Windows I get around that problem by using ctrl-alt-delete to launch the task-manager, and that will bring me to the desktop if I forgot to keep a simple application running.

Maybe there is a similar trick for a Mac?

[aka_tom_w]

Hi

Think there is a connection here:

Well I must admit to being a wee bit nervous about running this on my 4 year old Mac Pro

and

However should I be able to alt-tab to other applications whilst running the demo/game? I can't seem to be able to do this.

I am not a programmer, but on a 4 yr old mac it might just be the system is stretched to the limit playing the game and alt tabbing out does not function, of course it "should" function and I will let Phil address the question more directly, but on a much newer and more current and capable Mac Alt Tabbing in the game does work. FWIW

[Hiram Sedai]

This won't help anyone but the demo works quite well on my Intel Imac. You can take turns being jealous of me now.

[Fetchez la Vache]

Okay, this is embarrassing. I forgot it's Cmd-Tab for swap applications in OS X. My excuse is a combination of using Win7 at work and always using the "expose" function on the Mac. I was fooled by on screen prompt in CMBN to use Alt-Tab. I r tard.

So swapping apps works fine and I can browse to my hearts content.

Expose and Spaces don't particularly like CMBN though. You have to hit the Dock icon to bring it back up. I'm not complaining, just reporting. :-)

[Fetchez la Vache]

And I can happily report that a 4 year old Mac Pro (albeit with a video card upgrade 2 years ago) can still handle anything which is happy with only 512Mb VRAM. The only time I have problems is if I have VM Fusion running since it grabs a fair chunk of CPU for that horrible Windows OS I have to occasionally boot up - but not for CMBN, HA!!!

Still, a 27" i7 iMac with one of those fancy Thunderbolt things with a tower of external drives does look very tempting...

[ClarkWGriswold]

I forgot it's Cmd-Tab for swap applications in OS X. I was fooled by on screen prompt in CMBN to use Alt-Tab. I r tard.

If it still says Alt+Tab in the Mac version, that's a bug. A minor (text) one, but definitely misleading and something I can't believe slipped through since half of the dev team is using the Mac version.

[DaveyJJ]

We sure are! Thanks.

I have one too ... about twenty five minutes into my second game ... where do you want the Crash Log sent?

[kmead]

Runs fine on my last generation Mac Mini 2.53 with 4gb of ram and shared graphics. Runs well. I have also installed it on my last generation Macbook Pro 15 with 8gb ram and 512mb 330GT video card.

I was worried my Mini wouldn't allow me to play this on my home machine. No worries.

I haven't played through any scenarios yet just part way (the command and control system is very different from what I was used to).

Works great, looks great and thanks for a great job in developing a, marginal part of the market, Mac solution.

Now on to the iPad version! (the platoon/squad level game)

[Guest]

I have one too ... about twenty five minutes into my second game ... where do you want the Crash Log sent?

Thanks Davey. Can you PM me with it, please?

[ClarkWGriswold]

Just wanted to give an update on my original issue that started this thread, since I never heard back from Phil. I've tried several things to get this working on my Mac, none of which have worked. I tried changing the resolution from "desktop" (1440x900) to the lowest available (1024x768). I tried changing Vsync on/off. Both of those gave the same behavior as before, with the game hard locking my machine when pressing "Go".

I then tried logging in under a different user. This is an admin account that I don't think I've ever used since I installed the OS almost 4 years ago, so it's *clean*. Under this account the behavior is even worse! I double-click the icon to start the demo and the screen simply goes black. I don't get *anything*. Not even the menu screen. I can Cmd+tab back to the desktop, so the machine isn't locked up, but the demo doesn't work at all. The only way to get the program to stop is to kill it using Activity Monitor. Trying to simply close it doesn't work.

Is there any chance at all that this game is ever going to work on my machine? I'd hate to have a $60 doorstop sitting on my shelf until I fork over $2K for a new Mac.

I've also noticed one other "bug". The alternate hotkeys.txt file on the Mac is not only completely different than the alternate keys under Windows, but it is incomplete. About half of the functions (including most of the basic movement commands) simply aren't mapped at all.

[ClarkWGriswold]

Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention. I did get the game working on this machine using Boot Camp and the Windows version. There are weird graphical issues and flickering (I'm guessing that's due to only having 128MB VRAM), but it seems to work fine. I can issue commands, troops move, camera works, etc.

[Guest]

Just wanted to give an update on my original issue that started this thread, since I never heard back from Phil.

Thank you for providing information. I'm sorry you haven't heard back from me. I have had my hands full, and for your issue I have not needed additional information. I always do my best to respond to people when I ask them for information, so I apologize.

I've tried several things to get this working on my Mac, none of which have worked. I tried changing the resolution from "desktop" (1440x900) to the lowest available (1024x768). I tried changing Vsync on/off. Both of those gave the same behavior as before, with the game hard locking my machine when pressing "Go".

I then tried logging in under a different user. This is an admin account that I don't think I've ever used since I installed the OS almost 4 years ago, so it's *clean*. Under this account the behavior is even worse! I double-click the icon to start the demo and the screen simply goes black. I don't get *anything*. Not even the menu screen. I can Cmd+tab back to the desktop, so the machine isn't locked up, but the demo doesn't work at all. The only way to get the program to stop is to kill it using Activity Monitor. Trying to simply close it doesn't work.

Is there any chance at all that this game is ever going to work on my machine? I'd hate to have a $60 doorstop sitting on my shelf until I fork over $2K for a new Mac.

It's good that you've tried several things. Yes, chances are good that the game will work with your machine eventually although, as we've noted, you are under-spec'd.

When you're running under the old admin account, are you running CMBN from the Applications folder of a different user? As far as I know not even admins can reliably run other users' applications, which can carry a hodgepodge of permissions levels. Since the black screen indicates that CM was not able to load any data files I'm guessing the old admin account does not have the permissions necessary to run the application package properly.

I've also noticed one other "bug". The alternate hotkeys.txt file on the Mac is not only completely different than the alternate keys under Windows, but it is incomplete. About half of the functions (including most of the basic movement commands) simply aren't mapped at all.

Thanks.

[ClarkWGriswold]

Thank you for providing information. I'm sorry you haven't heard back from me. I have had my hands full, and for your issue I have not needed additional information. I always do my best to respond to people when I ask them for information, so I apologize.

Not a problem at all. I understand you've got a lot on your plate.

It's good that you've tried several things. Yes, chances are good that the game will work with your machine eventually although, as we've noted, you are under-spec'd.

I don't mind if it's a bit slow, or if it plays at low detail. I've got a much slower old Windows laptop that it plays well enough on. If it can play at least that well on my MBP, I'll be happy (at least until I can afford to upgrade).

When you're running under the old admin account, are you running CMBN from the Applications folder of a different user?

I didn't think about that. I went ahead and moved the entire demo directory to the root of the OSX drive and tried again - same behavior. I get the buy now/play now window, click "play now", and the screen goes black. I went back to my regular user account and tried the game again (from the new location) and it can get to the menu fine, as before.

Soooooo... no idea why I'm seeing two totally different behaviors using two different users on the same machine. And I'm really at a loss as to why the clean, unused admin account behaves worse than my 4-years-of-cruft regular account. I'm going to re-download the entire demo from a different mirror and see if anything changes. I'll update this thread again with my findings, but probably not until late tonight.

edit: I'm on a faster link than I'm used to, so the demo downloaded quickly and I gave it a shot. Same behavior as before. I can get all the way through the briefing but when I click OK the machine hangs (but sounds continue to play). I should also mention that before I was trying turn based and Veteran difficulty. This time I left everything at the default. Same exact behavior as before, so it's definitely not a corrupted download or anything.

[Guest]

Not a problem at all. I understand you've got a lot on your plate.

Cheers. I definitely do try to get back in some form to people who I specifically ask for info from, so it was an oversight on my part. I may not send answers, but I always try to say thanks.

I don't mind if it's a bit slow, or if it plays at low detail. I've got a much slower old Windows laptop that it plays well enough on. If it can play at least that well on my MBP, I'll be happy (at least until I can afford to upgrade).

Well, we may be able to deliver something that plays. The minimum specs are designed to provide a minimally playable experience across most scenarios, so you may be able to play but there might be some scenarios your machine just can't hack, and we can't make any guarantees about just how big "some" might be.

I didn't think about that. I went ahead and moved the entire demo directory to the root of the OSX drive and tried again - same behavior. I get the buy now/play now window, click "play now", and the screen goes black. I went back to my regular user account and tried the game again (from the new location) and it can get to the menu fine, as before.

Soooooo... no idea why I'm seeing two totally different behaviors using two different users on the same machine. And I'm really at a loss as to why the clean, unused admin account behaves worse than my 4-years-of-cruft regular account. I'm going to re-download the entire demo from a different mirror and see if anything changes. I'll update this thread again with my findings, but probably not until late tonight.

If the directory was introduced into your machine with one account it probably had permissions set / created by that account. I would guess, even if it's moved to your root folder, the originating account still "owns" it. That may restrict access to everybody but root, and even root probably can't run it properly.

Yes, try installing it fresh from the old account and see what happens - I'd be interested to know how that turns out.

Thanks.

[ClarkWGriswold]

You must have been responding during my edit, Phil. Tried with a fresh download and installed the game directly to the root of the OSX drive (rather than putting it in my Apps folder, then moving it later). Same behavior as before. Also, I tried the defaults of Realtime play and Beginner difficulty, rather than Veteran/WeGo as I was trying before. Didn't change the behavior. It still locks the machine.

[Guest]

You must have been responding during my edit, Phil. Tried with a fresh download and installed the game directly to the root of the OSX drive (rather than putting it in my Apps folder, then moving it later). Same behavior as before. Also, I tried the defaults of Realtime play and Beginner difficulty, rather than Veteran/WeGo as I was trying before. Didn't change the behavior. It still locks the machine.

Thanks Clark.

[MikeyD]

An entirely non-techie suggestion. Can you go into your graphics card setup and start turning off features one-by-one to see if the demo starts up? I'm on a bootcamped imac (ATI card) and the machine really really really doesn't like it if I try turning Adaptive Anti-aliasing on. Don't ask me why. Everybody's machine seems to have a different personality.

[ClarkWGriswold]

An entirely non-techie suggestion. Can you go into your graphics card setup and start turning off features one-by-one to see if the demo starts up? I'm on a bootcamped imac (ATI card) and the machine really really really doesn't like it if I try turning Adaptive Anti-aliasing on. Don't ask me why. Everybody's machine seems to have a different personality.

I can try that to see if it fixes the game when running under Boot Camp, but I'd really prefer to get the Mac native version running. I'm not sure how I would change those sorts of graphical settings on the Mac, or if it's even possible. As far as I'm aware, AA/AF are game specific and can't be set through the OS, can they? I set the CMBN in-game graphical options to as simple as they can get*, but it still locks the machine when the 3D engine tries to load.

*Sound On

1024x768

Vsync On (recommended for Mac)

3d Models: Fastest

3D Textures: Fastest

AA/AF: Off

High priority: Off

Language: English

ATI left-click: Off (I've tried this both off and on)

[ClarkWGriswold]

I hate to bump this again, but wanted to make sure the info is current. I downloaded my full copy of CMBN last night (along with the hotfix). It probably goes without saying that it, like the demo, doesn't work. Installed the game, installed the hotfix, and I still get the same behavior as the demo, where hitting the OK button hard locks my machine. I want to play so very badly, but the game just refuses to work. <cries_softly>

If there's any other info or logs I can supply to help investigate the issue, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

[Guest]

Clark,

Considerable effort has gone into a finding a solution to your problem.

First, your machine has one very serious video driver bug (search for "X1600 shader crash" to read about more games and users who have your troubles). Certain common shader commands (used to create rain and water effects) which your card purports to support cause it to "hard lock" as you've been seeing. I was finally able to track this down and hotfix it in Combat Mission in a patch that came literally as the releases were being built - were you able to play, you would find that you would see no water or rain effects. This actually may have solved the problem you're having for people with slightly newer / beefier machines. (A more comprehensive fix for them, with very limited shaders specifically designed not to trip the X1600's problem areas, will be forthcoming.)

However, it appears that your machine has at least one more bug up its sleeve. One of our testers has managed to borrow a machine that matches yours exactly and we are working very hard to find out what this second problem is. I have read about additional driver bugs that effect the early X1600 cards and we are working our way through the possibilities.

Please understand that at the end of the day the early X1600 was a limited and problem-plagued piece of hardware, and it *will*, in its 128MB configuration, have serious trouble with CM. We are doing everything we can to address any driver issues, however, and I hope to have this game at least playable for you by the time the first patch rolls out.

[JimG]

Phil,

I, too, have a slightly older MacBook Pro (model identifier: MacBookPro2,1), but mine is a 17" model, with a 2.33MHz processor, 3GB RAM, and 256MB of VRAM.

I tried the demo and got the exact same black-screen crash upon hitting the Play button from the scenario screen. I downloaded and ran the app from my admin account.

Just thought I'd chime in as another data point. Hopefully you'll be able to get us MBP folks up and running (with at least rudimentary water perhaps?).

[Guest]

Does your machine have an X1600 card as well, Jim? Every Macbook Pro we've tested on has been fine except for those with X1600 cards - my development work on the port was done primarily on an MBP.

Yes, I hope to have at least rudimentary water and rain running on X1600s at some point. It will likely be very rudimentary - the driver bug manages to cause trouble for some VERY basic functionality.