Book: Battle Normandy 1944

[Vark]

If you have not read this book I recommend it, gives a good insight into the tactical problems faced by both sides.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Normandy-1944-Death-Combat/dp/1902304470

[Barkhorn1x]

I've read some of his stuff and, IMO Macksey's a Hacksey,...in the sense that his "work" is about a mile wide and an inch deep.

He is one of these prolific "war book" writers that the Brit seem able to churn out in endless succession - along with the books.

[Vark]

Read the book, its a fictional book based on the operation around Tilly, that he actually took part in, so he has perhaps has more military insight than a plagiarising, inaccurate hack like Stephen Ambrose.

I leave his Times obituary entry for people to judge his credibility and depth as a military writer

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article771238.ece

[dieseltaylor]

Berkhorn - You abviously have read a lot have you any comments regarding "On the pyschology of military incompetence" by Norman F. Dixon

[para]

Read the book, its a fictional book based on the operation around Tilly, that he actually took part in, so he has perhaps has more military insight than a plagiarising, inaccurate hack like Stephen Ambrose.

I leave his Times obituary entry for people to judge his credibility and depth as a military writer

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article771238.ece

Beat me to it with Ambrose

[Vark]

Get it, fascinating insight, especially into the commanders who always proposed daring operations as a cover for their incompetence. Pull it off and you get the laurel crown, fail and you get praise for attemting something so daring. Rather like the wargamers who always want to play the losing side, its win, win, rather than the winning side, lest they fail to actually achieve the historical result, even though they have advantages the real commanders never did.

[Barkhorn1x]

Read the book, its a fictional book based on the operation around Tilly, that he actually took part in, so he has perhaps has more military insight than a plagiarising, inaccurate hack like Stephen Ambrose.

I leave his Times obituary entry for people to judge his credibility and depth as a military writer

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article771238.ece

Yes, agreed, Ambrose was a hack. I fail to see what bearing this has on Macksey's skill as a military writer - or lack there of.

Hey, it's only my opinion so you are welcome to it - or not - as you see fit.

[Vark]

Para, have you ever read "Not mentioned in dispatches" about Goose Green (central thesis, colonel H Jones was a pretty average commander and the battle revealed the short comings of his authoritarian leadership). Got it in a secondhand bookshop and it did seem to provide some of the missing pieces from the other more famous accounts.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Not-Mentioned-Despatches-Mythology-Biblical/dp/0718830164

[Barkhorn1x]

Berkhorn - You abviously have read a lot have you any comments regarding "On the pyschology of military incompetence" by Norman F. Dixon

No sorry, not familiar with that author.

[Vark]

He is one of these prolific "war book" writers that the Brit seem able to churn out in endless succession - along with the books.

That was the thrust of your argument I objected to, but it all depends on which of his books you have read. Battle is excellent at showing how the pieces of the jigsaw fit together and includes insights from a veteran, the tank commander KO'd because a nearby miss slams the hatch on his head (BF do you simulate this). It also is a joint operation that has US forces taking part as well as the Brits and shows the different SOP's, it would also be ideal as a scenario stimulator, when the Commonwealth module arrives. First Clash is an amazing piece of work, again taking docrtine and showing how it might affect a particular situation, I particularly liked the lessons learned, at the end of each chapter.

[para]

Para, have you ever read "Not mentioned in dispatches" about Goose Green (central thesis, colonel H Jones was a pretty average commander and the battle revealed the short comings of his authoritarian leadership). Got it in a secondhand bookshop and it did seem to provide some of the missing pieces from the other more famous accounts.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Not-Mentioned-Despatches-Mythology-Biblical/dp/0718830164

I shall be getting that to read on my hols..ta

@Barkhorn1x it was your oh so subtle snide comment that irked me as a Brit. Then again we should be used to it from those that won the war ;-p

[sburke]

I can see it now. Once the commonwealth modules is released, all the user scenarios will be US vs British and vice versa with one partying getting smacked with Battleship artillery to begin the scenario. Ah isn't it great to be allies? I used to be a big Ambrose fan and still love reading his stuff, but there is enough information out there now about plagarism and inaccuracies that I just accept that I am reading fun fiction.

I do really enjoy Macksey's First Clash. Maybe when CMSF 2 comes out it can be used to do a campaign.

[Guest]

I've kept a copy of First Clash on my shelf for years and I read it in full once every two or three years (as I do with Hastings' "The Battle for the Falklands"). Before I tracked down the first of my several copies I took it out of my local library when I was just a wee programmer so I could use it as research for my text wargames. Fantastic book in many respects.

[Vark]

We should really have a books section on this forum, most posters have read extensively, and I for one have found their various recommendations most illuminating.

Phil, careful about Hastings, he was there, so offers some good insights, but also/because of that seems to have swallowed the 'official' version far too readily.

Talking of Macksey, I always remember his description of the Sagger, in Tank, quoted from memory "but the missile seems to have a very small HEAT warhead which will be unlikely to cause much damage any modern MBT's". That edition book was published in 1970, guess the 1973 edition had a rewrite! Still as a boy I learned so much from that book, can still see the illustrations now!

[Barkhorn1x]

Perhaps I was too hard on Macksey - I have one book in my library - "Tank vs. Tank" and I recall that it was too broad and the case studies were particularly dreadful. May have been the editing.

My other comment was meant to be - a bit tongue in cheek - as I remember reading a steady diet of Ballantine "war books" as a young teen and I found out later that these were pretty bad from a factual standpoint and - sorry folks - most of those authors were Brits. Everybody gotta get paid I guess.

[Guest]

Phil, careful about Hastings, he was there, so offers some good insights, but also/because of that seems to have swallowed the 'official' version far too readily.

Thanks Vark. I question the veracity of most sources, and by extension writers. What I expect from Hastings and Jenkins, though - clear writing and a reporter's mindset - I get. Frankly I find that a good popular history is a crucial piece in understanding an event - knowing what the official or accepted line is can be very helpful in working out what *you* think happened.

[JonS]

I have a copy of "Battle", and agree it's a fantastic book. In fact, it has already inspired one scenario.

[Blackcat]

..central thesis, colonel H Jones was a pretty average commander and the battle revealed the short comings of his authoritarian leadership...

That is certainly a view that has gained in popularity over the years. Even at the time there were many in the Uk military who wondered what a battlion commander was doing carrying out the role of a subaltern, and getting himself killed in the process just added to the question.

One of the most interesting books to have appeared in recent years on the Falklands Campaign is "Forgotten Voices of the Falklands" by Hugh McManners in association with the Imperial War Museum (ISBN 978-0-09-190881-2). It exposes of many of the myths that were allowed to grow/deliberately fostered and, whilst taking nothing from the men involved, shows just how close to disaster the campaign was at times.

Re: Hastings, whilst worthy of respect as a historical writer, he does need to be treated with caution - especially over the Falklands. He is by training a journalist and quite a politcally motivated one. For a view on how he was regarded and treated during the campaign I would recommend the excellent, if light hearted, book, "Don't cry for me Sergeant-major" (which, in any case, is well worth a read for anyone who wants to try and understand the British Army).

Lastly, apologies because none of the above has anything to do with CM:BN.

P.S. As an aside, Lt. Col. Jones was awarded the VC. There have been dozens, probably hundreds, of acts of greater gallantry in Afghanistan where the soldier concerned has been awarded far less a medal, if one at all.

[GhostRider3/3]

Wanted to know what you all think of Michael Frank Reynolds books. I have to say I have read alot of books, and he seems to be very objective and non biased in his material.

Anyways just seeing if anyone else here has either read his material or had an opinion on his books.

[Barkhorn1x]

Wanted to know what you all think of Michael Frank Reynolds books. I have to say I have read alot of books, and he seems to be very objective and non biased in his material.

Anyways just seeing if anyone else here has either read his material or had an opinion on his books.

His books are undoubtedly well researched and he has an almost fetishistic need to use correct unit designations - which I really appreciate, BTW.* I have at least 3 of them. One minor criticsm: I do think his later works stoked a bit too much of the German Uber myth and not enough focus on the tremendous casualties that these tenacious SS units managed to rack up on BOTH attack and defense.

*Some of the worst "history" to me are works that fail to adequatly identify units and equipment - as if all that was somehow tangential to the story. A book that comes to mind in this regard is "A Bitter Woods" by Eisenhower's son. The books best part was its title and proves the adage..."It's not what you know but who."

[GhostRider3/3]

His books are undoubtedly well researched and he has an almost fetishistic need to use correct unit designations - which I really appreciate, BTW.* I have at least 3 of them. One minor criticsm: I do think his later works stoked a bit too much of the German Uber myth and not enough focus on the tremendous casualties that these tenacious SS units managed to rack up on BOTH attack and defense.

*Some of the worst "history" to me are works that fail to adequatly identify units and equipment - as if all that was somehow tangential to the story. A book that comes to mind in this regard is "A Bitter Woods" by Eisenhower's son. The books best part was its title and proves the adage..."It's not what you know but who."

Cool, and good to know. Yes I have about 6 books from Michael F. Reynolds and you pretty much hit it right on the button. For a British chap, he does is homework.

Say Barkhorn, you know any good Authors for the Market Garden operation? I have a couple books that touch on the subject, but was looking for the best book that really breaks it down with great tactical maps etc.

[Gromit]

It's a bit pricey, but I have heard many times from different sources that "It Never Snows in September" is one of the best. Haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

[undead reindeer cavalry]

It's a bit pricey, but I have heard many times from different sources that "It Never Snows in September" is one of the best. Haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

yes it's a good one. if one buys only one book about the operation written from German perspective, or if one has read only books written from Allied perspecive, this would be a good choise for the book to get.

there's a paperback version that is quite cheap.

[Guest]

One of the most interesting books to have appeared in recent years on the Falklands Campaign is "Forgotten Voices of the Falklands" by Hugh McManners in association with the Imperial War Museum (ISBN 978-0-09-190881-2). It exposes of many of the myths that were allowed to grow/deliberately fostered and, whilst taking nothing from the men involved, shows just how close to disaster the campaign was at times.

Nifty, thanks.

Re: Hastings, whilst worthy of respect as a historical writer, he does need to be treated with caution - especially over the Falklands. He is by training a journalist and quite a politcally motivated one. For a view on how he was regarded and treated during the campaign I would recommend the excellent, if light hearted, book, "Don't cry for me Sergeant-major" (which, in any case, is well worth a read for anyone who wants to try and understand the British Army).

Yes, well, a book by a reporter for the Evening Times and the political editor at the Economist can be assumed to have a particular bent. I never took it as anything but.

Hadn't heard of "Don't cry for me" - sounds fantastic. I just wish more military non-fiction books were available via Kindle. It's a pain trying to get out of the house to track them down.

P.S. As an aside, Lt. Col. Jones was awarded the VC. There have been dozens, probably hundreds, of acts of greater gallantry in Afghanistan where the soldier concerned has been awarded far less a medal, if one at all.

American generals routinely win valor medals simply for being in the vicinity of enemy fire, let alone actual valor.

[Wodin]

My favourite book for the Normandy landings is "Omaha Beach" by Joseph Balkoski. I also recommend "Beyond the Beachhead: The 29th Infantry Division in Normandy" by Joseph Balkoski.

Both damn fine reads.

I enjoyed "War without Garlands "by R Kershaw but found "It never Snows in September" didn't keep my concentration...I will have to give it another try.

The classic A Bridge to far by C Ryan I still recommend for MG campaign.

Finally another superb West front book from the German side is "Seven Days in January: With the 6th SS Mountain Division in Operation Nordwind" by Theodore C. Mataxis and Wolf T. Zoepf...god knows why the low review at Amazon UK as for small unit tactic book it's excellent especially for us CMBN players as the maps and size of battle is at CMx2 scale exactly, will make a great campaign when the Bulge game comes out . The only problem I have with it is the cover is on back to front and upside down...it goes well with "When the odds where even" by K E Bonn...

Whoops one more superb read "The Guns of War " by George Blackburn http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guns-War-George-Blackburn/dp/1841192104/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1303916554&sr=1-1 Just noticed the price...I had a perfect copy...one of the many that my ex ripped up in a temper...