Will the camera controls make a progress as well?

[DeLaVega]

Hi,

one thing which bothered me most since the 3rd instalment of CM is the way of controlling the camera. I haven`t checked any mods in this regard, so I have no idea, whether they have been improved. Last time I played SF: Marines it was still a jerking matter to move the camera to the point where you want to be.

I`m thinking of a "Total War" kind of smooth camera movement with real mouse wheel support of zooming and rotating. Or, since you can`t please everyone with one fixed way, what about letting the player map the camera keys by himself?

I think in 2011 no one should have to rape the numeric keys anymore to center some attacking soldiers (or click on arrows to pan the cam).

So, I`m asking, will there be a change, too?

[weapon2010]

I feel the camera controls could not be better, once you learn how to use it properly, they are very powerful.The only improvement I would make is that the lowest to the ground camera view be lower.Currently the lowest camera view is just above their heads while standing.I would like a prone or ground view.You would have a much better pespective as to why a unit does not have a los to an enemy or building.

[stikkypixie]

I just don't like the way it's accelerating, very annoying (using the left mouse click that is).

[ChrisND]

Hi,

one thing which bothered me most since the 3rd instalment of CM is the way of controlling the camera. I haven`t checked any mods in this regard, so I have no idea, whether they have been improved. Last time I played SF: Marines it was still a jerking matter to move the camera to the point where you want to be.

I`m thinking of a "Total War" kind of smooth camera movement with real mouse wheel support of zooming and rotating. Or, since you can`t please everyone with one fixed way, what about letting the player map the camera keys by himself?

I think in 2011 no one should have to rape the numeric keys anymore to center some attacking soldiers (or click on arrows to pan the cam).

So, I`m asking, will there be a change, too?

I'm not sure you were using the camera controls properly in CMSF. Smoothly moving around the battlefield, I NEVER touch a key to move the camera, with the exception of the flip-180 and go-to hotkeys.

[DeLaVega]

I like to move the camera with one hand and pan it with the other hand (preferably with the mouse) and I haven`t found a way in previous CM`s to do it that it feels smooth and fast.

And I really don`t like to move the mouse cursor to the edges of the screen to move or rotate the camera and then come back to the center to select a unit.

I just remembered another example of (in my opinion) perfect camera controls. The "Theatre of War" series offers camera freedom to each direction, yet it`s fast, smooth and very intuitive. (Otherwise I wouldn`t have been able to make all the videos with it :-) )

Only because one can play CM as a turn-based game shouldn`t mean that the way "fast" RTS games are played is being ignored. RTS games have these smooth controls for a reason... (not only to look sexy) ;-)

[Vinnart]

IMO CMx2 has the best camera control of any game I have played to date! True it does not control the way many other game do, and takes a bit getting used to, but once you do I know of no other game that offers as many features as CM's. Basically any view one could want is offered, muliple type zooms; scroll wheel zoom, and "Bino" zoom, wide view, overhead view. Lock to unit, center on unit. Smooth pan via left mouse button.

I do hear where the original poster is coming from. CM's camera and control in general is just so different feeling especially if one goes back and forth say from TOW and CM. Perhaps CM's camera, and system must be the way it is to maximize the overall functionality of its control system? I don't know, but once used to its system I find controlling the game very easy. Perhaps a TOW type camera control would work for CM? Again it is hard to say. Only the developers know why they set the game up to control the way it does.

I recommend getting a mouse with as many programmable buttons as possible. I have bound to mine: camera preset views 1-6, Center camera on selected unit. Others I have bound to my N52 speedpad are “Bino” zoom in and out, and F12 (select previous unit). The thing is to get used to using both left, right, and scroll wheel to control the camera. CM also offers the player the ability to setup hotkeys any way they want.

[LJFHutch]

It's not the control that bothers me, I couldn't think of a better way of doing that actually. The horribly jerky movement with the keys and slow cumbersome mouse movement does though.

It would be great if you could use wasd smoothly.

[Broadsword56]

Does "bino" zoom view have that vignetted cutout shadow shape around the edges to simulate looking through the lenses of binoculars? Just curious.

[Vinnart]

Does "bino" zoom view have that vignetted cutout shadow shape around the edges to simulate looking through the lenses of binoculars? Just curious.

No. When I say "bino" I mean you can zoom the camera in on objects far away in a "bino" kind of way with full screen view. No bino cut outs, and personally I would not want that for CM. I want to see more screen as it is now, not less.

The camera depth of field is done very well with this zoom. The back ground blurs giving a very 3D effect.

[MikeyD]

A common problem with newbies (and people with crappy mice) happens when you don't pay sufficient attention to where the cursor is on the screen. Camera speed controls start from screen-center. If you mouse-button-move with the cursor already starting hard to a corner then ZOOM! Off you go! Me, I'm suffering with a wandering cursor that likes drifting to the upper left corner. Has nothing to do with game controls, everything to do with a dirty worn-out old mousepad.

[MG TOW]

It stands to reason that people who only play intelligent tactical wargames only would not know what the optimal method for camera via mouse control is. There are genres of gaming where the mouse control is the bread and butter of the game. Bottom line I can deal with the camera controls the way they are because I am used to it, but it is not optimal.

[Destraex1]

I agree. There are a few grogs here who are not "widely read" so to speak. Anyone who has ever played a Total War war, company of heroes or sins of a solar empire game will realise how easy things can be. Go download the demos for the latest of those games and come back to me.

What CM needs is the ability for players to use fine motor skills to accurately zoom while moving the camera. There should be no need to stop and turn in order to zoom in on a squad. Similarly their should be no need to stop and select a squad before zooming in. From their, once zoomed, in it should be an easy affair to zoom out again accurately or move across the terrain spinning the camera every which way like you are hunting for something.

Jutland however is another indy game that uses the same camera controls as CMSF.... I would attribute it to the games being indy in-house engines without the benefit of a highly developed mouse module. You don't have the benefits of a pre-paid base engine or

a large team working on a mature in-house engine.

For me its good enough and I will not complain about it. Just a lot clumsier than other games.

[MikeyD]

I just opened the game and zoomed while moving the camera with the mouse. Nothing particularly special there. I've zoomed lots of time while locked to a moving unit, its especially fun to do during long range tank battles. Does CMx2 have shooter controls? No. Its not a shooter game.

[Destraex1]

MikeyD........ the games I mentioned above are not shooters.

[Lt Belenko]

..... a dirty worn-out old mousepad.

Maybe BHFC will toss a new mouse pad in with the steel box

either that or go buy a new mouse pad.

[Guest]

Total War and Company of Heroes also aren't as flexible (camera-wise for this discussion) as CM.

In neither game would you need to get down to ground level - excepting perhaps Empire / Napoleon if you're really into sighting your cannon, and even then it's not 1:1 - and still be able to, or expect to, control the game, and the camera schemes reflect that. Essentially: their camera needs are much simpler, and so are the controls.

The same goes for their control schemes in general. I've spent a lot of time with Total War (I won't post my Steam hour counts for MW2 or NTW, for example, but they're fairly epic) and the TW camera definitely does NOT fill the same roles as the CM camera. CoH is almost bizarrely simplified - I find its control and camera needs are even less than a normal RTS like, say, Dawn of War. Tiny maps, no significant elevation changes... you can't get much farther from what CM needs to do.

Personally, I think CM does a bang-up job considering how flexible it needs to be on so many levels. I can command an entire battalion from a mile up, then get down and follow / control a key squad that's doing fun things in a village. It's part of the charm for me.

[Destraex1]

hmmm. I do not agree. But will have to pay more attention next time I play CMSF... its been a while.

What I remember is trying to "guess" the place my mouse cursor needed to be to swivel the camera. Something that happens naturally in all the games I mention.

I should also point out that in all of those games I get down on the ground for over 50% of the game. Thats the way I love to play. I like watching the antics and results of a local action. Its the reward for all of the planning and also the view that gives the most information about how exactly the result came about.

I know more than one person that has completely rejected CMSF because of the annoying camera.

[ChrisND]

hmmm. I do not agree. But will have to pay more attention next time I play CMSF... its been a while.

What I remember is trying to "guess" the place my mouse cursor needed to be to swivel the camera. Something that happens naturally in all the games I mention.

I never move my cursor away from the center of the screen when moving the camera. In fact I pretty quickly jet around the map and whip the camera around with the slightest motions.

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I think people are trying to handle the camera/controls as if they were the same controls from other games, when they aren't. The camera controls closely resemble 3D design programs like 3ds Max. Coming from that background, I've had no problem with them, in fact for me it's superior, other than not being able to swivel the camera and move at the same time.

The camera controls aren't changing any time soon, so you can either bang your head against the wall trying to play another game's controls, or learn how to use them properly and get on with blowing stuff up.

[Ranger33]

I like the camera controls in CMSF pretty well, one thing I would like is the option to click with the middle mouse (well, mouse wheel for me) to jump across the map (same as ctrl+left click) so I don't have to reach over to the ctrl key (lazy, I know).

What I would really like would be a setup where you use WASD to move the camera and hold RMB to rotate, shift to speed up camera, mouse wheel for elevation, and just use space bar menu to issue orders. You would be able to do 95% of things without moving either hand around.

[Destraex1]

How do you whip the camera around accurately with the slightest motion?

I still think this game would benefit from the ability to move around the battlefield while turning.

Its like modern tanks not having to stop to fire like ww2 tanks had to. Its a huge advantage. Less of a pain in the butt for users

Does it mean I will not buy the game? no. But I know a few people who will not, because they consider the interface clumsy and backwards. Compared to other games I have to agree.

[DeLaVega]

Like Destraex1 I also know people who reject playing CM because of the way the camera is controlled.

I`m using Cinema 4D, haven`t tried 3ds MAX yet, but I can imagine that the camera controls might be similar. The first question I asked myself when I opened the software was "Who created these camera controls?".

Yes, I agree, you do get used to it. But only because you invest some time in learning it and then, after a while, it feels natural, of course.

When people visit me and I show them "Theatre of War" or a "Total war" game and hand over mouse and keyboard to them, they understand and master the camera controls almost instantly.

What I just wish for is an option to map the mouse/ keyboard controls.

And, like Destraex1 said, camera controls won`t stop me personally from getting the game. I, like most of you, belong to the group who value other things in the CM series than that. But there are people out there who are spoilt by more intuitive and not so jerky camera controls and they might hesitate...

[ChrisND]

How do you whip the camera around accurately with the slightest motion?

Step 1: Ensure that cursor is in center of screen (where it should be anyways, unless you are selecting something or giving orders).

Step 2: Hold the right mouse button and drag the mouse in the direction you want to go. The further you drag it, you faster you will go.

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Also, I find it amusing that people keep mentioning ToWs controls, because I hate them and find them horribly clunky. I guess this one really comes down to personal preference, and isn't so much an objective matter as much as a subjective one.

[Destraex1]

oh nice. Still seems like your telling me movement requires me to stop everything else and concentrate on that.

[ChrisND]

oh nice. Still seems like your telling me movement requires me to stop everything else and concentrate on that.

If you want to move the camera and issue orders at the same time, then you are out of luck. I've never felt a need for it myself, though. Also, the mouse doesn't have to be in the center, but I use hotkeys and rarely need to click anywhere else. Personally, I think the most expedient improvement to be made in that area is make the WASDEQ keys control the camera more smoothly. They're pretty clunky right now.

This makes me want to re-install ToW and make sure I'm not misremembering how it handled.

[George MC]

oh nice. Still seems like your telling me movement requires me to stop everything else and concentrate on that.

Depends on what orders and how you play I reckon. Most of the time when playing I'm at Lev 3 so I can keep an overview of what is happening. If I'm plotting movement orders, especially for armour I get down to Lev 1, then use the WASDEQ hot keys to move the camera whilst plotting movement orders using the mouse. I can then move to Lev 3 and plot fire orders if need be for the vehicle. I play both RT and WEGO.

I agree with ND the camera controls using the WASDEQ can be a bit rough (camera speed is hard to control) so having em smoother would be useful.