TBlaster Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Long story short, I play only multiplayer CM against friends, but we want more out of the game than just tactical battles. So with the original CM we tried using tools like "Aide de Camp" to help us manage the operational layer. Is there any game that has the option of not calculating combat when 2 enemy unit formations meet? We would then play the game in CM, and update the operational game with the leftover combat strengths. Thanks, Tom 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haouai Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Hello, I was asking myself the same quetion and the answer was: "do it yourself" So, I looked for a paper wargame with an operational level and make some rules to do a "bridge" from operational to CM tactic level. Then, I had to creat a module with one of the Virtual Wargame Engine (for building and playing online adaptations of board games) which doesn't calculat combat resolution and lets the players do it. So, you can move your forces at operational level and when there a combat, you resolve it with CM. Some simples homemade rules allow you to simulat a available OOB for CM (which depend of the operational situation), casualties, ammo ... I'm actually finishing it. I didn't find a Normandy wargame for our futur "favorit Pc Game" yet (so if you know one ...) but I find one for CMBB (in french) http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/41115/mious-1943 - 2 SS Division against 2 Guards Mec - Batallion level for sheets - 8 turns - 2 pages only for the wargame rules 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 I didn't find a Normandy wargame for our futur "favorit Pc Game" yet (so if you know one ...)... If you can find a copy of SPI's Atlantic Wall that might do the trick. It's got all the forces present in Normandy represented at the battalion level. Came out about 30 years ago. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traemyn Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 How about Normandy '44: gmtgames.com/p-237-normandy-44 http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Normandy_%2744 or Breakout Normandy: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/482232/tense-torrid-terrific http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Breakout_Normandy or The Battle for Normandy: gmtgames.com/p-213-the-battle-for-normandy http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:The_Battle_for_Normandy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 D-Day: The Longest Day, by Avalon Hill? Lots of cardboard... Or the computer version? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 That thing still sells for hundreds of dollars; I couldn't believe it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 How about Normandy '44: http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Normandy_%2744 Of the lot I think Normany 44 offers the best potential in that the OoB is on company scale (and can be edited further if desired), individual tanks and AT guns are accounted for, air and artillery support can be defined, the addition of replacements to units especially when removed from the front line, impact of allied air surpremacy on German supply and reinforcements etc and the game scale of 1 km and 2 hrs per turn is about as close as you can get. You can also edit your saved games in a text editor allowing you to include the results of the battles you chose to fight through CMBN. I am not sure how well this will allow you to develop balanced scenarios though. I can't imagine being on the receiving end and of an assault by 2 infantry battalions with armor, air and artillery support trying to defend with 1 company from an Ost Battalion would be too much fun. What you may find is that you will fight battles in CMBN that you wouldn't try in PzC simply because you wouldn't have some magical odds number to succeed. The biggest issue if you are really intent on modelling this I think is the terrain is still far too generic. At best you will have roads and villages and some height changes to draw from. However as seen in the latest AAR, one of the real strengths of the tactical game is how to make best use of terrain and deciding the resources to use. The problem I think you will find using any operational level game is deciding how to take the very generic terrain depicted and adapt that to the depth of detail you get in CMBN scale. If someone would just do all 22,500 1 km hexes in detailed CMBN maps....... One game series that might have been better for this is the Tactical Games Series by The Gamers . At platoon level and a map that was not simply generic and a step closer to scale it would give you a campaign scenario potential of several days, depict delays in reinforcements, operational plans etc. Unfortunately they only developed one game in the series for this time period (Omaha) and it only covers the first few days for the 1st and 29th IDs. When we get Market Garden and Bulge modules they have I think 3 games in that time period to use. By the way, my lawyer says I must include a disclaimer as trying to manage an operational level game to develop scenarios may lead to mental stress and health issues. In no way am I suggesting or implying you should do this and am not accountable to the impact on your personal hygiene should you chose to do so. :-P 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Maybe you should take a look at the games from panthergames ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Hmmm, the game "The Devil's Cauldron" is a company level, multi-division, multi-map game about Market-Garden. They are making an add-on for the 101st section called "Where Eagles Dare" (I think). The game is fun, it flows, and the production values are top notch. The next ones up are either Kursk or D-Day (I _think_ D-Day is first in line). So, if you can wait a couple years, it should be worth it.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetori Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Meta games are why some sort of API export at the end of a scenario would be awesome. Just a simple textfile with who did what, what was lost, killed, damaged and ammo left along with the victory conditions and time would enable modders and wizards to make wonders. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Maybe you should take a look at the games from panthergames ! Its been done, and plans are in the works for another following CMBN's release. See this thread: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=95057&highlight=campaign&page=4 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Its been done, and plans are in the works for another following CMBN's release. Sorry Bil, i dont understand you here...could you explain what you mean ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 Sorry Bil, i dont understand you here...could you explain what you mean ? If you look at the thread I linked to above you will see that there has already been a Meta Campaign that used the Panther Games system as an operational layer. It was with CMAK of course. Myself and a few friends (The_Capt being one) are in the midst of planning for another META campaign after CMBN is released using Battles From the Bulge (Operational layer) and CMBN (tactical resolution). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 If you look at the thread I linked to above you will see that there has already been a Meta Campaign that used the Panther Games system as an operational layer. It was with CMAK of course. Myself and a few friends (The_Capt being one) are in the midst of planning for another META campaign after CMBN is released using Battles From the Bulge (Operational layer) and CMBN (tactical resolution). So you plan to mod B ft Buldge map to a normandy one, and can edit unit lossed each turn? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 There already is a working and very popular St Lo mod scenario with hedgerow terrain/map if you look in the "Mods" folder on the Matrix Games forum area for BFTB. That seems like it could work with CMBN right out of the box, no? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted April 3, 2011 Share Posted April 3, 2011 As mentioned a couple times above one possibility is to use VASSAL http://www.vassalengine.org/ It's a java based multiplayer virtual board that already has many hundreds of board games converted, many of which are wargames. Allows for play by email, hidden board pieces, dice rolls etc etc. It's also pretty easy to learn if you don't find something that suits. I've built a complete version of Blood Bowl (more correctly dungeon bowl) based around the house rules I play with a friend. Edit - the board can simply be a jpg of a real map, moves measured out using an in built LOS/range string, lots of potential. Could ask and get all the board pieces from one of the already created modules. If nothing better is found that's my suggestion. -F 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Hunter Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 I'm actually thinking about designing and writing a stand alone utillity for the operational part. It would be a top down 2D view, company level simulation. Each player would move his companies and resolve battles in CM when wanted. Each Player moves at operational level and then decide if they want to resolve battles in CM or simulate battles. After the battles forces are updated, reinforcements (if any) arrive and new turn starts. 6 hours turns, weather, reinforcement & air superiority would be simulated. The negative part is that updating forces after a CM battle would have to be done manually based on casulties recorded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Tim Allen : When I walk into that (Sears) Craftsman tool department, my nipples get rock-hard! When I think about operational level on top of CMx2 , my nipples get rock-hard! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Tim Allen : When I walk into that (Sears) Craftsman tool department, my nipples get rock-hard! When I think about operational level on top of CMx2 , my nipples get rock-hard! Just your nipples: casual CM'er then eh? Edited- there's a global strategic WW2 game slated for this year that will allow editing platoons casualties in divions. Bitter Glory will be hex based. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical Wargamer Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 Maybe you should take a look at the games from panthergames! Have their games not sure how could one use these in an operational level CMBN game? <edit> AH I see Bills post. Still would like to see more in depth on how one could edit files in the BOTB game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical Wargamer Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 There already is a working and very popular St Lo mod scenario with hedgerow terrain/map if you look in the "Mods" folder on the Matrix Games forum area for BFTB. That seems like it could work with CMBN right out of the box, no? Intersting. Love that program. Will check out the MOD. Does it have a name? Thx 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Just take a look at the BFTB forums, there is a "Mods and Scenarios" section. I cant post a link, i already got a warning for posting the link to panthergames... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical Wargamer Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Just take a look at the BFTB forums, there is a "Mods and Scenarios" section. I cant post a link, i already got a warning for posting the link to panthergames... Np man.I just thought there might be numerous ones. Thx!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactical Wargamer Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Just take a look at the BFTB forums, there is a "Mods and Scenarios" section. I cant post a link, i already got a warning for posting the link to panthergames... PM sent 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 On the boardgame side, St. Lo (West End Games, designer: Joseph Balkoski)is battalion-scale and a highly regarded classic from the 1980s. Not a monster like Atlantic Wall, much cheaper to buy used these days ($40-$60) and preferred by some grognards who have played both. Balkoski, as many of you might know, is the historian who wrote the "Beyond the Beachead" book being touted over on the books thread. Although I'd prefer a computer game for the op layer, it seems that a board game would actually be the easiest to use right out of the box -- since all you have to do is stop the op game at the right moment, resolve a battle, and apply results on the board before continuing. There's a good page about the St. Lo game on boardgamegeek.com. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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