A few bugs

[Erik Springelkamp]

A few bugs I noticed while playing the game last week:

1) Humvee's making strange pathing choices.

The first one made it through a back road - which proves the road was no real problem, but the second got second thoughts and started to make a detour, where it drove through a couple of buildings, and later it moved as if it thought its position was shifted: ie. it's path through walls had the shape that would be correct if the whole path were shifted by some 50 metres.

And in that game the Humvees now regularly refuse to go through some places. This is a PBEM game.

2) During the second scenario of a campaign (Road to Dinas) played in Iron Mode, my orders phase stopped being in Iron Mode: ie. all units became visible when selecting a unit. During replay however the display returned to Iron Mode with all the friendly question marks. This has been going on for several turns now.

I have save games for both situations.

[Alan8325]

Units in CMSF don't really have strong pathing. Just make waypoints around obstacles and along roads to keep vehicles on paths that you want. It also gives you the flexibility to add different cover arcs at places along the path.

In Iron mode, all units are visible for selection when no units are selected. IMO it's almost a pointless feature of Iron mode, with the only real plus being that you can click on a unit and more easily see at a glance who is in C2. I still always play in Iron mode however, because of the more realistic (longer) fire support times.

Hope that helps.

[gibsonm]

Units in CMSF don't really have strong pathing. Just make waypoints around obstacles and along roads to keep vehicles on paths that you want. It also gives you the flexibility to add different cover arcs at places along the path.

Hope that helps.

Only if you play in RT and manually change the covered arc as you go.

In WEGO the one covered arc applies for the duration of the minute (or until you set another). You can’t assign new covered arcs at each waypoint.

[ChrisND]

Only if you play in RT and manually change the covered arc as you go.

In WEGO the one covered arc applies for the duration of the minute (or until you set another). You can’t assign new covered arcs at each waypoint.

I'm pretty sure you can. You can assign arc orders to each waypoint.

ETA: Yep, just tested and you can. It's pretty cool actually.

[Mord]

Yep...you can...it's even in one of those Huntarr stickies I believe.

Mord.

[gibsonm]

Ah yes so you can.

Amazing what you can forget if you put your mind to it.

[Erik Springelkamp]

Just make waypoints around obstacles and along roads to keep vehicles on paths that you want.

But I did just that. I put all the waypoints exactly, so it wouldn't have to think for itself. The same route a previous Humvee had successfully taken. But still it got totally confused.

In Iron mode, all units are visible for selection when no units are selected.

Yes, but I was speaking about the situation when a unit is selected.

It just showed all units, regardless of C2, and its own formation highlighted, like in elite mode. While during the replay, I see mostly dust clouds and question marks with a unit selected (they are Syrians).

[Erik Springelkamp]

I'm pretty sure you can. You can assign arc orders to each waypoint.

ETA: Yep, just tested and you can. It's pretty cool actually.

Yes, that was another issue in the same game:

I gave two Bradley's a move-and-fire-dance series of orders for the turn, pausing 10 seconds at each waypoint, in order to hit all the segments of a building for a short time (and not destroy it), but the Bradley's kept in place and pounded everything into their first room, that ceased to exist.

The waypoints were close to each other, and apparently the Bradley couldn't be bothered to dance around. (forwards, backwards, a little sideways, it really got hard to select each waypoint so close to each other, and if you move back to your starting place, I saw no way to select the waypoint, as it disappeared under the vehicle itself)

[Alan8325]

But I did just that. I put all the waypoints exactly, so it wouldn't have to think for itself. The same route a previous Humvee had successfully taken. But still it got totally confused.

Yes, but I was speaking about the situation when a unit is selected.

It just showed all units, regardless of C2, and its own formation highlighted, like in elite mode. While during the replay, I see mostly dust clouds and question marks with a unit selected (they are Syrians).

I've seen plenty of instances of vehicles taking odd paths, especially if they are attempting to get around another unit. Moving multiple units at the same time, crossing paths, in WEGO is a nightmare for me but I'm primarily a RT player. Once units start to do crazy things I pause the game and fix it with new orders.

Also, yes I remember now that in WEGO the selectable units limitation of Iron mode does not occur during the orders phase. In RT, however, you see it when you select any unit.

[Lanzfeld]

In Iron mode, all units are visible for selection when no units are selected. IMO it's almost a pointless feature of Iron mode, with the only real plus being that you can click on a unit and more easily see at a glance who is in C2. I still always play in Iron mode however, because of the more realistic (longer) fire support times.

Hope that helps.

Also remember that it is harder to keep units in C2 in Iron mode because in order to use the "visual distant" C2 you not only need LOS but your units must also actually SPOT each other (well....the squad must spot the HQ). Not a big deal if Blue but if you play Red with no radios visual C2 is a big deal.

[Erwin]

"I still always play in Iron mode however, because of the more realistic (longer) fire support times."

So, this and C2 issues largely with Red troops are the only real extra challenges.

I too don't understand the point since of Iron since when you deselect, you see everything. (Am also in the camp that just cos something is more of a headache, doesn't mean it's more realistic.)

[Erik Springelkamp]

I like to explicitly see the state of C2 in Iron Mode. The disadvantage actually turns into an advantage.

So the penalty is stronger for RT than for WEGO.

The behaviour during the command phase is probably not a bug but a feature, I just fired up a quick battle in WEGO and indeed I saw this behaviour consistently. Must have been faulty memory, in cases where I examined my units still at the end of the replay phase.

I will experiment with the waypoint-fire-dance procedure some more, maybe I will understand what works and what doesn't.

[Chops]

I am seeing firing through walls from troops both inside a building and those outside. This behavior is present in CM:SF NATO with 1.31 and also in CM Afghanistan with the latest patch. I did not observe this happening prior to NATO.

[Huh?]

I think I may have found a rare bug, if it's even a bug and not something that was overlooked due to how rare it would happen. I was playing the Al Huqf scenario in pbem and got decimated, not a man alive on the battlefield, and the game kept on going. Truthfully, this may be a feature, because if you botch things so bad that everyone dies or routs, then you are simply shamed into hitting the surrender button as I was forced to do.

[Erik Springelkamp]

I think the automatic surrender only works for the AI.

[LongLeftFlank]

By the way, the vehicles driving through buildings phenomenon is -- I believe -- entirely a result of continuing to edit the map (i.e. place new buildings) after you've already selected the units.

Delete all units, save game, and then repurchase them.

Or easier yet, if you've already Deployed them, rename the old units OLD, buy duplicate NEW units and swap them in to the OLD unit positions, then delete the OLD units and save.

[LongLeftFlank]

I am seeing firing through walls from troops both inside a building and those outside. This behavior is present in CM:SF NATO with 1.31 and also in CM Afghanistan with the latest patch. I did not observe this happening prior to NATO.

I believe this is a bug being spun as a feature -- allegedly reflects keyholding through abstracted shellholes, small air vents, etc. in seemingly "solid" walls. And from an "incoming" fire POV, it allegedly reflects the limited protection vs. bullets provided by cinderblock. Blank walls do continue to provide concealment however.

But in any case, it seems livable; as I playtest my Ramadi map, I like the idea of being able to shoot through a wall containing only a door (quite realistic). Also, since nearly all my buildings are girded by high walls which are definitely NOT shootable through (in fact, I've seen my troops waste ridiculous amounts of ammo trying to shoot units on the other side), this limits the problem for me. Perhaps I will run into problems that change my mind.

If BFC does (unlikely!) do any further tweaking to the buildings, I'd rather they make the FLOORS of buildings, which are invariably thick rebar cement provide good solid cover vs. non-same-level shooters, including those in the same building. Killing units on a different level ought to be a lot harder than it is. There's usually only one stairwell and units know to avoid it unless they're using it.