Battlefront.com Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I'm sure FJ are the only ones with the recoilless in our timeframe. GJ aren't relevant. And since we don't have FJ in the initial release of CM:BN, then we shouldn't have their weapons sitting around in fields unmanned I am sure WH Panzer units facing the Germans had some Wespe and Hummel available. These were supposed to be standard equipment. Whether they actually had what they were supposed to I don't know, but I'd be surprised if they didn't. These vehicles had a fairly low mortality rate because they weren't often put into direct ground combat very often. Which is why they were a low priority to add to the game, as fun as they might be. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway!!! Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I don't know my Normandy history, but what about the Panzer III? Does one of these variants show up in a later mod (short barrel 75), or do we have wait for the eastern front game in 6 years? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 There were some Pz IIIs in Normandy but the purpose of Mord's list is to contrast CMBO with CMBN. CMBO did not have the PZ III. It's probably a good candidate for later inclusion though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The Panzer III never had a short barreled 75mm (37mm and 50mm only) but yes I think its going to be in the "rare" vehicle module. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The Pz IIIn had a short barrel 75mm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway!!! Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Panzer III Ausf. N - Armed with a short barreled 7.5 cm KwK 37 L/24 gun, due to 7.5 cm gun's ability to fire HEAT rounds. I'm not a 100% on this, but I think this variant was in CM:BO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The Pz IIIn had a short barrel 75mm. Yes you're right, I'd forgotten the "n" (so many to remember ). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 I'm not a 100% on this, but I think this variant was in CM:BO I looked through all the dates and didn't see it. Maybe CMBB or CMAK? Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moneymaxx Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 On this website http://mysite.verizon.net/pchardwarelinks/cm/ databases can be found about units available in CMBO, CMBB and CMAK. Thanks Chris! It seems there was no Panzer III in CMBO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Correct, no PzIII in CMBO. IIRC the total number of PzIIIs in Normandy for ALL Panzer Divisions was less than a dozen. Which units still had them I don't know off the top of my head. Regardless, they would be rarer than French R-35 tanks! Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 NOTE: Because I think I was too vague in my first post...I also made these lists so that we could get an idea of what might be left to add into other modules after the first release. As was pointed out, some of the "missing" vehicles weren't seen until Sept or only in the Brit's/Canadian's areas of conflict. A little refresher to get you day dreaming while we wait. Commonwealth Module; will of course have Brits...Canadians? + more German Equipment. Market Garden; Extra Brit Vehicles/Paratroopers? American Vehicles? Polish Airborne? + more German Equipment. Mish Mash Module; Rare stuff, kitchen sink...American Vehicles? Brit Vehicles? French and Vehicles? + German Vehicles. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krilly Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Ah well, as a 'trackhead' I just wont 'moar, MOAR!' in the inital CM:BO release, like a little kid I want a million toys instead! But then again, what they are putting in is looking so fantastically good and detailled (Priest anyone?), and the most important stuff for the time-frame is in. We'll live. Btw, I am waiting for a Stug pic. I wonder how my favourite toy is going to look in CM:BO. Particullary whether it is going to look like a shrubbery on tracks or not 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Pz III/N - it was usually found as a support company within the various Tiger Battalions. The stubby 75 was useful to lob HE at targets in support of the Tigers. Obviously there's a LOT more information of a groggy nature about the III/N and its role in the TO&E. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Pretty sure the Brits faced Jagdpanthers and I would very disappointed to find this very lovely TD missing from the Brit module. I could almost swear that I've seen at least one photo of GIs walking past a dead Jagdpanther in bocage country plus other photos of Jagdpanthers in bocage country. But I won't try to build an argument on that basis. One photo of a lone Jagdpanther does not an argument make in this case, and the Brits also spent some time fighting in bocage country too. Be interested to hear if there is any solid evidence of Amis going up against Jagdpanthers though. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I am sure WH Panzer units facing the Germans had some Wespe and Hummel available. These were supposed to be standard equipment. Whether they actually had what they were supposed to I don't know, but I'd be surprised if they didn't. These vehicles had a fairly low mortality rate because they weren't often put into direct ground combat very often. Which is why they were a low priority to add to the game, as fun as they might be. You would still have 105 mm and 150 mm artillery modules available to account for them as well as their towed cousins though, right? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Btw, I am waiting for a Stug pic. I wonder how my favourite toy is going to look in CM:BO. Particullary whether it is going to look like a shrubbery on tracks or not Well no different to how it currently looks in CMBO. But if you mean "I wonder how my favourite toy is going to look in CM:BN?" that's a totally different question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krilly Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Hehe, yeah silly me. I meant CM:BN 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavierisback Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Hi, I'm lurkering this forum for a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time. This new opus of CM seems very interesting. I don't know if it is in the scope of the game but during the Seine river crossing (Aug 1944) there was some battle between US td and King tigers in the Vexin area. I can post more informative sources if it helps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Correct, no PzIII in CMBO. IIRC the total number of PzIIIs in Normandy for ALL Panzer Divisions was less than a dozen. Which units still had them I don't know off the top of my head. Regardless, they would be rarer than French R-35 tanks! Steve Sgt Joch posted this in an old thread: "It might be of interest to post this again, pulled it out of Panzertruppen, vol.2: Quote: division---------------PzIII----PzIV----PzV----Stugs--------- 2nd Panzer-----------------------96------79----------------- 9th Panzer-----------------------78------40-------5---------- 11th Panzer-------------26-------89---------------8---------- 21st Panzer---------------------112-------------------------- 116th Panzer------------13-------86---------------6---------- Panzer Lehr-----------------------98------88----------------- 1st SS Panzer--------------------45-------54-----45-------- 2nd SS Panzer--------------------54------78------42-------- 12th SS Panzer-------------------98------66---------------- 17th SS Panzer-Grenadier--------------------------42------ List of tanks available to Panzer divisions in the West, june 10, 1944. Does not include independent units, like Tiger battalions. It also does not necessarily matchup to their TO&E when they went into combat, since some were still rebuilding." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Yeah, those numbers are "in theater" which doesn't include stuff in shops, rear units in training, etc. And IIRC there was some dispute about 11th Panzer having so many PzIIIs in actual combat units. But I haven't done any research on that for a long time. US forces going up against KTs within CM:BN's timeframe? I think that's a new one for me. But I wouldn't be at all surprised. As the remains of the forces in Normandy streamed over the Seine all kinds of things happened thanks to the chaos. IIRC most of the surviving Tigers and King Tigers had to be abandoned in the retreat because they didn't happen to wind up finding a bridge that could hold their weight. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 So while you are around Steve, what is the dealio with the PSW 234/3? Did it not see action against American forces? Or was there just no room for it? And is there a chance I will get my grubby hands on it at some point down the line...in Normandy? Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I could almost swear that I've seen at least one photo of GIs walking past a dead Jagdpanther in bocage country plus other photos of Jagdpanthers in bocage country. Quite plausible. The s.Pzjag.-Abtl. 654 faced off against the British during Op BLUECOAT, which was right on the boundary between the British and the US armies. Given that the British subsequently hooked off to the left, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that US units later moved through the BLUECOAT area. Be interested to hear if there is any solid evidence of Amis going up against Jagdpanthers though. Yes. Me too. FWIW, Zetterling gives a total of 30 Pz III (all variants) in seven units in Normandy, incl a reasonable number that would only ever have faced the British. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 US forces going up against KTs within CM:BN's timeframe? I think that's a new one for me. But I wouldn't be at all surprised. As the remains of the forces in Normandy streamed over the Seine all kinds of things happened thanks to the chaos. IIRC most of the surviving Tigers and King Tigers had to be abandoned in the retreat because they didn't happen to wind up finding a bridge that could hold their weight. Steve I tried to find a citation for this. So far, all I have come up with is a picture of a King Tiger with a hole in its front turrent with an unreferenced note saying: "It seems this tank was killed by an American 76 mm armed M10 from the 813 TD Bn on 28 August 1944 in front of Sailly near Mantes on the Seine just west of Paris." This would just sneak into the CMBN timeframe at least until the Market Garden module. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 76mm M10? Not likely But as JonS said, and I mentioned before, a wide range of possibilities exist at the very end of the Normandy campaign as the German units disintegrated and the seams between the US and Commonwealth were shifted. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 So while you are around Steve, what is the dealio with the PSW 234/3? Did it not see action against American forces? Or was there just no room for it? And is there a chance I will get my grubby hands on it at some point down the line...in Normandy? help me...please help me.... Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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