A teeny weeny little bug thread for NATO

[Peter Panzer]

The Syrian Forward Observer Team (Regular) below was able to direct a pair of Hind gunships to their target zones in less than a minute. Can that be right? Aren't these the same guys that need the better part of an afternoon to bring down their battalion level mortars?

Interestingly, the second CAS mission they requested noted "Delivery = 6 min." The scenario difficulty level was set to "Iron."

[Allan Wotherspoon]

Noticed something strange with the Canadian LAV 3 infantry section vehicles. Each carries two Carl Gustav's, with two rounds of ammo. I wonder if one of the CG's shouldn't be an Eryx. As far as I know, the Eryx was intended to be a section level AT weapon. It doesn't appear, as far as I can tell, anywhere but the light infantry company weapons platoon. Shouldn't there be an Eryx in each ISV, along with some ammo for it?

Also, I noticed that the Coyote carries LAW's and AT-4's. Canada doesn't use the AT-4.

[SD Smack]

I would think 6 minutes would be reasonable even for Syrians. If airpower is available I have always viewed it as circling above or in an "on call" status. There are no GPS guided munitions that I know of for the Syrians so the prep time is more of a conversation between the FAC and the pilot. Pilots aren't as smart as they seem, really they like working with basic directions and pictures.

Might go like this....

Red 1 this is Brother 21

Brother 21 go ahead

Target is 500 meters north west of the village. Target is an armored vehicle located next to a palm grove and a large building with a blue roof.

The building with the blue roof next to the road and trees?

Roger.

Target in sight.

Cleared hot.

BOOM

[SD Smack]

I also noticed the LAV III TUA carries a lot of 40mm grenades. I highly doubt they carry grenades (but I could be wrong).

[Peter Panzer]

SDSmack

I would think 6 minutes would be reasonable even for Syrians. If airpower is available I have always viewed it as circling above or in an "on call" status.

I can get behind that part too. It's the first pair of gunships laying down ordnance in less than a minute from the time of the initial CAS request that has me scratching my head. This, by a group of "Regular" artillery observers no less.

Just for kicks, I tried this with a US JTAC Team (Regular) and the same thing happened (TOT less than a minute) for the initial request. The difference being that the second CAS request timed in at 4 min. versus the Syrian 6 min..

In my opinion, a Syrian artillery/mortar FO team should not be on par with a dedicated air controller team in regard to CAS request time. Frankly, I suspect "<1 minute" for either side is probably charitable, but I have never personally talked in a gun run so I could easily be wrong.

[Waaarg]

If you give a Fuchs a target order at something farther to the left than about 10 o'clock or farther than the right than about 2 o'clock, the gunner grabs his G36 and starts shooting at it.

I don't know if this is a bug, but I haven't ever seen this happen without cover arcs in place. I had a Fennek spot a Syrian squad with about 35 seconds left in the turn. It was unbuttoned at the time (which I doubt has anything to do with it), was in C2, and was not under fire. I issue a target command, and it sits there for the next 12 seconds, when a BDR shows up and only then does it move. It rotates, slams it into reverse, buttons, then just as quickly unbuttons.

I have both save files, though again, not sure if this is a bug, or just because the dutch troops are complete crap in this particular battle (dutch oven). This particular crew was -2, Green, rested, +1 Ok.

[chaos49]

Hi

i playing a PBEM game ( Nato Dutch Damascus blues again ) in the martyr1 place there are 4 1 store houses in a row. my men panic and ran out of the

wall the dont use the door.

i have save game if need it.

[Lethaface]

Peter Panzer,

Could it be that you requested the Strikes during setup phase? I know that for artillery at least the delivery time is <1 min when planned during setup phase.

In the first mission of the Dutch campaign it takes 6 minutes before the Apache's are on station.

[Jonny(FGM)]

Yup, if you request arty/air support in the initial orders phase it arrives within the first minute.

[Peter Panzer]

Lethaface/Jonny

Yup, if you request arty/air support in the initial orders phase it arrives within the first minute.

Yes, that was the situation. Thank you for clearing that up as I was obviously not aware that was an intentional aspect of the game.

Thank you for your help!

[Lethaface]

My pleasure

I have a host of preplanned artillery strikes on my name since 2007, but never did it with air so wasn't sure bout those.

So, thanks for clearing that up!

[akd]

Not sure if this is new, but I ran into a situation where a Stryker w/mk.19 got down to 3 HE rounds then commenced to reload, fire 3 HEDP rounds, reload, fire 3 HEDP, on and on. Last 3 HE were never used.

[Allan Wotherspoon]

Playing Halt! Hammerzeit PBEM. AT-5 hits one of my Leopards and kills the driver, but leaves the tank otherwise operational with only minor damage. Crew panics and dismounts from the tank. When their panic subsided, I was able to recrew the tank and happly drive off, eventhough it appeared that only the commander, gunner and loader stations were manned. As far as I could tell, it was operating with a full turret crew and no driver, but still moving about.

[Sergei]

Playing Halt! Hammerzeit PBEM. AT-5 hits one of my Leopards and kills the driver, but leaves the tank otherwise operational with only minor damage. Crew panics and dismounts from the tank. When their panic subsided, I was able to recrew the tank and happly drive off, eventhough it appeared that only the commander, gunner and loader stations were manned. As far as I could tell, it was operating with a full turret crew and no driver, but still moving about.

Did you look at what everybody was doing? It says it in the lower left corner. I bet someone of the surviving crew shows as 'driving'. The speciality only tells what they're specialized at, but eg. if a vehicle has lost its driver and gunner, it doesn't mean that others can't drive and, eh, gun.

[Boche]

Playing Halt! Hammerzeit PBEM. AT-5 hits one of my Leopards and kills the driver, but leaves the tank otherwise operational with only minor damage. Crew panics and dismounts from the tank. When their panic subsided, I was able to recrew the tank and happly drive off, eventhough it appeared that only the commander, gunner and loader stations were manned. As far as I could tell, it was operating with a full turret crew and no driver, but still moving about.

well, i got hit with an AT-3, frontal armour but juuuuuust hit the bottom of the cannon...and yes the tank burned and all the cew died

[Allan Wotherspoon]

Did you look at what everybody was doing? It says it in the lower left corner. I bet someone of the surviving crew shows as 'driving'. The speciality only tells what they're specialized at, but eg. if a vehicle has lost its driver and gunner, it doesn't mean that others can't drive and, eh, gun.

You're right, it shows the commander as driving. That still seems strange though, I would have thought that the loader would have moved to the driver's seat and the commander doubled as loader.

[Sergei]

You're right, it shows the commander as driving. That still seems strange though, I would have thought that the loader would have moved to the driver's seat and the commander doubled as loader.

Well, it's quite hard to be both the commander and the loader - the reason why three-man turrets are so popular (unless using autoloader). I don't even know if it really makes a difference in the game where the commander is seated, so...

But the program subroutine probably never could respond to every possible scenario in a way that would satisfy everyone all the time. The only perfect solution would be to leave that in the player's hands, but I think that kind of micromanagement wouldn't fit very well.

[Mord]

The JAV is doing that thing again where it flies straight, then takes a sharp turn, before going top down.

Secondary vehicle explosions aren't causing any casualties to nearby soldiers. I had four guys all within a meter of a huge BMP cook off and it didn't do anything to any of them.

Mord.

[Boche]

any ETA on 1.31?

(btw 131 is my lucky number !)

[Alan8325]

The JAV is doing that thing again where it flies straight, then takes a sharp turn, before going top down.

Secondary vehicle explosions aren't causing any casualties to nearby soldiers. I had four guys all within a meter of a huge BMP cook off and it didn't do anything to any of them.

Mord.

It at least causes suppression now and some casualties. I've played around with large ordnace hitting vehicles in the editor, as well as watch secondary explosions, and it's better now than in v1.21, but still unrealistic IMHO. Ah well..baby steps.

[akd]

Something is definitely wrong with the Gill flightpath. I keep seeing them land short of targets, sometimes very short like half the distance to target. Saw this four or five times in a row targeting different buildings with different teams on a QB map. Gill should have a very steep top-attack flight profile, no? (Perhaps it also has a direct attack option like the Jav, but I doubt the game models that for either).

[phil stanbridge]

Something is definitely wrong with the Gill flightpath. I keep seeing them land short of targets, sometimes very short like half the distance to target. Saw this four or five times in a row targeting different buildings with different teams on a QB map. Gill should have a very steep top-attack flight profile, no? (Perhaps it also has a direct attack option like the Jav, but I doubt the game models that for either).

Has anyone noticed how inaccurate the Milan seems whilst on the subject? In several missions here I am having the majority percentage miss badly, like half the distance also. But it could be the trajectory and the terrain, because they are generally fired from Wiesles which are very low to the ground, but it could be a problem. Incidentally the dismounted Milan is also troublesome in this respect and wildly inaccurate.

[Praetori]

Has anyone noticed how inaccurate the Milan seems whilst on the subject? In several missions here I am having the majority percentage miss badly, like half the distance also. But it could be the trajectory and the terrain, because they are generally fired from Wiesles which are very low to the ground, but it could be a problem. Incidentally the dismounted Milan is also troublesome in this respect and wildly inaccurate.

Wiesels carry the TOW2. Marder the Milan if I'm not mistaken.

But yes I've seen this many times. The TOW seems to have an even more erratic flightpath than in real life and the Milan lands very short of the target in about half the cases. This could be due to low unit skill though I haven't really checked.

[Jonny(FGM)]

RE the gill, I've not noticed any landing short, but I have noticed they tend to land about 1 action spot behind the target quite often, no idea if this is accurate or not though.

[Erik Springelkamp]

During test runs I have seen a compete volley of 6 Gills land halfway, while in the next run they all hit their targets. Really weird.