Repositonable waypoints in the NATO module...

[19Kyle72]

Before I order the NATO/Brit modules, I would earnestly like an official answer to the following question:

My chief complaint about the CMSF system was the complete inability to grab and easily reposition waypoints that have already been placed on the map. Since the AI has some weak points in regards to efficiently maneuvering on the battlefield, and since my play time is extremely limited, it's important to me that I'm able to speedily reposition previously laid waypoints, especially since the current system is so ponderous.

The inability to do something so vital kept me from purchasing the British module, and will certainly do so again for the NATO release.

This feature was promised to be in a future update to the CMSF series, and so I have to ask, has it been finally realized for the NATO module?

My fingers are tightly crossed that it is. Otherwise...

[LJFHutch]

Hmm, that would be very nice actually. I missed that when I played SF originally, it would also be really good to be able to delete the last placed waypoint - I can't count the number of times I've accidentally placed a stupid last waypoint and had to cancel them all and start again, especially noticeable in RT when the time taken doing something like that may get the unit killed.

[silverstars]

Hmm, that would be very nice actually. I missed that when I played SF originally, it would also be really good to be able to delete the last placed waypoint - I can't count the number of times I've accidentally placed a stupid last waypoint and had to cancel them all and start again, especially noticeable in RT when the time taken doing something like that may get the unit killed.

hit backspace. it removes movement orders one node at a time.

[ChrisND]

The inability to do something so vital kept me from purchasing the British module, and will certainly do so again for the NATO release.

I find it mildly bizarre that such small single issues like this are how you decide to purchase software. Gives a whole new meaning to the description "single issue voter".

[LJFHutch]

hit backspace. it removes movement orders one node at a time.

.................. awww ........ awww ........... haha, thanks man

[19Kyle72]

such small single issues like this are how you decide to purchase software

I guess it all depends on how one defines "small."

The amount of time that I have available for playing is at a premium.

Now imagine knowing that since the AI is already weak in avoiding painfully obvious obstacles (even well before any justifiable panic's induced), one decides to lay down 2-3 waypoints to ensure that a unit speedily gets around a mound of debris, only to discover that upon playback said unit mysteriously decides to drive a significant portion of its hull through said debris anyway, causing it to slow down enough so that it can get struck by a RPG.

So, unable to SIMPLY reposition a waypoint marker, or to SIMPLY insert an additional one, one has to reload a previous save, and COMPLETELY redo all of the waypoints, reposition/insert the "ideal" and "magic" waypoint which WILL ensure that the AI won't stupidly hook itself on the debris, hold one's breath that the plan goes as originally envisioned, or else start ALL OVER AGAIN.

Seriously, an enormous portion of my time was wasted finagling over such details. And this isn't a case of someone who wants to reload every time a unit gets injured. I'm willing to suffer the consequences from making my OWN stupid decisions, but far too often, I suffer consequences that have NOTHING to do with strategy, but almost all entirely due to how frequently AI units fumble with pathfinding.

Because this series has so much to offer, I am MORE THAN HAPPY to reload a previous save to nudge a waypoint over an extra 2 m. this way or that, or to insert just one more waypoint into The Sweet Spot, but said features, standard in many a title, don't yet exist, so this boils down to losing a great deal of time as well as satisfaction over events that should be easily avoidable.

And the promises to include such a feature have been made more than once, and more than once it's failed to appear.

What frustrates me is that I dearly appreciate most everything else that the series presents, but to not be able to reposition/insert waypoints is more bizarre to me than not including said feature knowing full well how much frustration can be perfectly avoided in a consumer who wants to throw hard-earned money at your product if only a significant portion of their hard-earned time isn't frustratingly flushed away in the process.

This issue has been brought up more than a few times in the past, and a fix requested by a good deal more people than just myself.

It would just be nice to know whether something that's been asked for and promised for so long is finally going to be appear in the series.

[ChrisND]

Now imagine knowing that since the AI is already weak in avoiding painfully obvious obstacles (even well before any justifiable panic's induced), one decides to lay down 2-3 waypoints to ensure that a unit speedily gets around a mound of debris, only to discover that upon playback said unit mysteriously decides to drive a significant portion of its hull through said debris anyway, causing it to slow down enough so that it can get struck by a RPG.

So, unable to SIMPLY reposition a waypoint marker, or to SIMPLY insert an additional one, one has to reload a previous save, and COMPLETELY redo all of the waypoints, reposition/insert the "ideal" and "magic" waypoint which WILL ensure that the AI won't stupidly hook itself on the debris, hold one's breath that the plan goes as originally envisioned, or else start ALL OVER AGAIN.

:confused::eek::confused:

Question 1: When was the last time you played the game?

Question 2: Are you serious?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

With the order delays no longer part of CM (*boo* *hiss*) moveable waypoints are no longer critical. But still highly desirable for fine tuning the mass movement of troops.

As such I am not sure why Kyle is getting this type of unhelpful response.

[ChrisND]

With the order delays no longer part of CM (*boo* *hiss*) moveable waypoints are no longer critical. But still highly desirable for fine tuning the mass movement of troops.

As such I am not sure why Kyle is getting this type of unhelpful response.

Because it's patently silly, and likely based on old flaws to boot. I'm sorry, but this is a small issue amplified to gigantic proportions, and therefore silly.

[Dietrich]

A few times while playing CMSF I've thought, "Yeah, it'd be nice if I could move waypoints* around instead of replotting move orders"; but the degree to which it would improve my enjoyment of the game is so little that its absence is hardy noticeable.

I can't fathom forsaking modern Fallschirmjäger for it.

* I understand that the inherently greater complexity of units' interactions with their environment (i.e., action spots; how vehicles actually do avoid certain obstacles) precludes just slewing waypoints around as in CMx1.

[Zatoichi]

They're not in CM:A, so I don't imagine they'll be in NATO.

Not having them can be a bit annoying occasionally, but it's not one of my personal top 5 bugbears with CM (Better quick battles, redesigned Acquire system, AI triggers, kill stats and damage decals if anyone is keeping score).

Even without all of the above being included or even on the list*, I will still happily buy NATO, and the WW2 titles - they'll get there eventually.

*QBs will be overhauled in the WW2 release for sure, no idea about the others.

[Jonny(FGM)]

This feature was promised to be in a future update to the CMSF series, and so I have to ask, has it been finally realized for the NATO module?

Do you have a quote for that assertion?

All the posts I've ever read on the matter from BF stating it is on the to do list but not that high up it.

Personally i've never encountered the problems you have stated, yeah it would be nice, but there a lot of things id put ahead of that.

[sfhand]

As one who has, and will continue, to advocate for movable waypoints I'm a little ambivolent about this post and some of the responses to it. At one point after the Marines module Steve addressed the issue and my hopes were raised (I would never say movable waypoints were promised) to the point that I think/have thought they are potentially in each subsequent patch. This hasn't stopped me from ordering and enjoying the Brits and Nato (not enjoying yet). But, I would enjoy the game a lot more were they in there because movement plotting without them frequently is drudgery.

But like most features, if it's not an issue for you then it's not an issue for you. That's different than not being able to acknowledge that just because it's not an issue for you it may be a very important feature for someone else.

For me the value of movable waypoints is that it streamlines the movement orders process. For me it is much quicker to give group movement orders and then fine tune them than to plot each one individually. Another great use is to plot to the top of a rise, issue a target order, and then drag the waypoint back until spotter is hull down. Much faster, and for me more enjoyable, than what the game currently allows me to do.

[Jonny(FGM)]

Don't get me wrong, I certainly see the advantages they would provide, and if they were to be put in I would view it as a good thing, there are just a lot of other things id like to see first.

[akd]

Pretty much at the top of my list for interface features. Being able to plot group orders then drag and drop waypoints for individual vehicles/units as needed would greatly improve my enjoyment of the game.

[Mord]

I think action spots may be the reason we can't fine tune waypoints (adjust them) like we could in CMX1...I don't think they can be placed anywhere on the map they have to snap to the action spot...kinda like targeting. At this point I am used to it but I wouldn't be against them adding it in...but there's a couple other things I'd like to see first...Kill List being number 1.

Mord.

[MikeyD]

I believe most players (beyond this chat board), prefer to play Realtime. I know I do. And who spends hours carefully setting up minutes worth of complex waypoint orders in Realtime?

I believe Steve has said before that repositionable waypoints is somewhere on their very very long to-do list. But hey, CMSF isn't CMBO. They never said it was going to be. It isn't Tombraider either which it why it lacks keyboard commands to jump and grab onto ledges.

[sfhand]

I believe most players (beyond this chat board), prefer to play Realtime...

I'll bite... why do you believe most players prefer to play Realtime?

[sfhand]

And who spends hours carefully setting up minutes worth of complex waypoint orders in Realtime?

One of the reasons for moveable waypoints is so one doesn't have to spend a lot of time plotting SIMPLE movement orders in wego. As one who seldom, if ever, issues complex waypoint orders I find this indirect characterization of the wego player somewhat amusing.

[vincere]

I believe most players (beyond this chat board), prefer to play Realtime. I know I do.

I believe that you can get therapy for that. Once cured nobody would hold it against you.

[SelfLoadingRifle]

I believe most players (beyond this chat board), prefer to play Realtime. I know I do. And who spends hours carefully setting up minutes worth of complex waypoint orders in Realtime?

Er... (sticks head over parapet) I find that realtime works for smaller scenarios, and we-go makes the larger scenarios far more manageable

... and yes, playing we-go, I much prefer the CM system of moveable waypoints.

However for me this is a relatively minor issue:)

SLR

[c3k]

WeGo for me.

The ability to reposition waypoints would be a great boon. The lack of that ability is relatively minor.

Ken

[Noltyboy]

WeGo for me.

The ability to reposition waypoints would be a great boon. The lack of that ability is relatively minor.

Ken

Same, and i was a RT fan when i first started.

[19Kyle72]

Well, I'm assuming that since none of the beta testers has stepped forward to say that moveable waypoints are in and working, and since no other company official has said the same, that said feature is out of this release.

Is there even a hint that it's still being worked on, or...?

[Jonny(FGM)]

Is there even a hint that it's still being worked on, or...?

I'd bet you $1000 it won't be in Nato, and probably about 100 it won't be in normandy.

I cba to find the post but i'm sure i've seen steve say it's on the list, but not towards the top so probably not until the game (excluding modules) after normandy.