British Army to get new (compromise) camouflage uniform

[JonS]

No.

So, it's *not* "1st Armd Regt, RAAC"? How odd.

[gibsonm]

So, it's *not* "1st Armd Regt, RAAC"? How odd.

Yes it is in terms of the unit being part of the RAAC, but if you were to look on say a piece of Regt Letterhead it would be:

1st Armoured Regiment.

Not

1st Armoured Regiment, Royal Australian Armoured Corps

Just like its not (to go to a bit of an extreme):

1st Armoured Regiment, Royal Australian Armoured Corps, 1st BDE, 1st DIV.

Armoured Regiments don't have an overarching "Regt" structure, like for example Artillery seem to like to use for Mess Functions.

Gunners seem to merge the Corps title with some sort of Regt system

So from the unit I used above:

7th Field Regt is an Aust Artillery Regt.

"7th Field Regiment" is what goes on the Letterhead / CO's business card.

"7th Field Regiment" is certainly a part of the Corps of RAA.

"7th Field Regiment of the Royal Regiment of Australian Artillery" is a phrase I've heard at Mess functions but you wont find that listed on an ORBAT somewhere.

Certainly the Head of Corps for RAA has no command relationship with the CO of 7 Fd.

[Michael Emrys]

I thought British and Commonwealth countries' naming systems were all messed up, then I found out how kludged the conventions are in the current US Army's Modular system. I have, therefore, come to the conclusion that no military has an ounce of sanity when it comes to naming their units

That's certainly true now; it was quite a bit more sane (with only a relative few peculiarities) at the time of WW II.

My own personal pet peeve in that regard is the USN's way of naming ships. At the time of WW II it was almost completely rational: BBs were named after states; CAs and CLs after cities; DDs and DEs after naval heroes, and so on down the line. I was especially delighted that subs were named after fish and other sea creatures. So if you heard the name of a ship you could immediately recognize what general class it belonged to. Nowadays anything can be named after almost anything at all if it pleases SecNav and Congress allows it. There are some conventions, but even those get mixed up and are confusing to anyone who doesn't keep a sharp eye on proceedings. Which for all I know may be the intention...

Michael

[Noltyboy]

That's certainly true now; it was quite a bit more sane (with only a relative few peculiarities) at the time of WW II.

My own personal pet peeve in that regard is the USN's way of naming ships. At the time of WW II it was almost completely rational: BBs were named after states; CAs and CLs after cities; DDs and DEs after naval heroes, and so on down the line. I was especially delighted that subs were named after fish and other sea creatures. So if you heard the name of a ship you could immediately recognize what general class it belonged to. Nowadays anything can be named after almost anything at all if it pleases SecNav and Congress allows it. There are some conventions, but even those get mixed up and are confusing to anyone who doesn't keep a sharp eye on proceedings. Which for all I know may be the intention...

Michael

I think its a pity they name Fleet Carriers after Presidents, especialy living ones. The USN has a great history of for carrier names.

[Michael Emrys]

I think its a pity they name Fleet Carriers after Presidents, especialy living ones. The USN has a great history of for carrier names.

I couldn't agree with you more. The Navy's sucking up to the people who sign their appropriations is downright contemptible IMHO.

Michael

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Please tell me there's no USS Bush in the pipeline!

I would suggest that should such a vessel be launched it would become the target of every protestor, terrorist, campaigner you could ever imagine.

Regards

KR

[gibsonm]

Well depends on which "Bush" you mean.

CVN-77, USS George H.W. Bush, the last of the "Nimitz" class fleet carriers is named after Bush "the elder".

I suspect you mean Bush "the younger" though?

[souldierz]

Any chance on someone creating these new Multi terrain pattern camouflage uniforms for the CMSF British Mod so we could use them? I think they look very good and they would be great to have in game.What do ya think, what do ya say?

[flamingknives]

A slight problem with the new MTP:

1) That isn't it.

2) It isn't appropriate to the time frame.

Other than that, it's open for people to do as they please

[Blackcat]

Those who are of a sensitive disposition should not follow the following link:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/new-army-uniforms-to-camouflage-lack-of-basic-equipment-200912222331/

Those of more a robust frame of mind might like to read what England's premier satirical web-site has to say about the new army combat uniform .

[souldierz]

A slight problem with the new MTP:

1) That isn't it.

2) It isn't appropriate to the time frame.

Other than that, it's open for people to do as they please

Maybe true, I'm not going to try and pretend that I'm an expert on current military developments but here's a small article with 2 other pictures.

"New camouflage to help British troops blend into Afghanistan's varied terrain has been unveiled by the Ministry of Defence following computer modeling of the Afghanistan environment.

It is the first time since 1968 that the British Armed Forces have changed the camouflage pattern.

The Multi-Terrain Pattern (MTP) will eventually become the new look of the British Armed Forces. The new MTP camouflage will work across different terrains in Helmand Province, such as compounds, grassland, crops and woodland, all the areas our troops encounter on patrol.

Uniforms in the new pattern will be issued to troops from 4 Mechanized Brigade who will deploy to Afghanistan in March 2010. It will then be introduced across all three services from 2011.

The new camouflage uniforms were trialled in laboratory tests and field evaluations to assess overall performance with pilot trials held before the final testing. This included aerial and scientific photography to provide the right colours and brightness for the new camouflage pattern.

The colours were fed into a computer and computer modelling was used to represent the Green Zone, deserts and mixed environments in Afghanistan. A number of camouflage samples were then generated based on the colours found in Afghanistan and via the computer modelling trials.

Research into the Multi-Terrain Pattern (MTP) started six months ago and was funded as an Urgent Operational Requirement, costing £250,000.

Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth said:

"This new camouflage will help our troops blend into different environments in Helmand Province to stay hidden from the Taliban.

"Patrols take our troops through the Green Zone, scrubland, desert and arid stony environments and it is crucial that the camouflage can work across all of them.

"We are striving to provide our brave troops with the very best personal kit and equipment and the new Multi-Terrain Pattern is just one example of how we are supporting our troops on the Afghanistan frontline."

Lieutenant Colonel Matthew Tresidder, Chief of Staff for Defence Clothing, said:

"The new camouflage has undergone extensive trials to ensure we have the right pattern to blend in a host of environments troops encounter while patrolling the frontline.

"It is an important development for both troops on operations and also for the British Armed Forces as a whole once this pattern is adopted across the three services.

"It also keeps our sense of being British which was something the Junior Ranks said was important to them during the development process for the new camouflage."

The samples were tested in the UK, Cyprus, Kenya and Afghanistan by the Infantry Trials Unit and it was found the Multi-Terrain Pattern offered the best performance over the widest range of environments."

The new MTP camouflage (two centre) will work across different terrains in Helmand Province – such as compounds, grassland, crops and woodland – all the areas our troops encounter on patrol

Picture shows the design of the new Multi Terrain Pattern (MTP) uniform (left) alongside the old style uniform (right)

[Picture: POA Phot Amanda Reynolds, Crown Copyright/MOD 2009]

Below is what some are wearing in the field now.

Either way,all these uniforms would look good in game in my opinion:).

[Elmar Bijlsma]

*edit*

Replied to an old post due to navigational error. Deleted as irrelevant.

[-Eddie-]

Though these may not be right for the time frame of CMSF I do feel that they'd be a great addition if anyone wants to have a go. I think in scenarios such as Afreus' 'Joint Venture' - a very good attempt at replicating the Green Zone in Afghanistan - this camo would be interesting to see how it works out.

As to the camo in the real world, it seems almost a shame. Yes a mixture of DPM Woodland and Desert is an unofficial compromise but the MTP seems to be an official compromise. If you look at these photos from the MoD website it shows that DPM desert does seem to work pretty well in non Green Zone areas.

1

2

3

So, does anyone think the forces will retain DPM desert after MTP becomes more widely issued, or will penny pinching rear its ugly head?

Also note the last picture, seems the MoD have finally caught up to the real world and started blurring snipers faces. Maybe something to do with this?

[-Eddie-]

Bump, anyone seen these of 40 Cdo taking over from 3 Rifles in Sangin?

[gautrek]

2009]

Below is what some are wearing in the field now.

Either way,all these uniforms would look good in game in my opinion:).

I'm pleased to see that we still do the scruffy as f*** look when we are out in the field.It makes me proud that no other nation seems able to dress down as well as our boys can.

[Battlefront.com]

Oh, you should take a look at the Afghan forces! Of course they were likely given tips from their British trainers, so I guess you can say that indeed... nobody knows how to dress down as Brits

As a side note, the mix of Temperate and Desert DPM by troops in Afghanistan was the initial cause of the switch to the MTP uniform. Much like Afghanistan put the last nail in the coffin of the US Army UCP (ACU). For some reason soldiers think that after 9 years of war they should have a uniform that actually works in the terrain they're fighting in. What a bunch of unreasonable whiners, eh?

Steve

[SKELLEN]

I find it ironic all this talk on camouflage when the Taliban seem to have no trouble avoiding us on the field, so one has to wonder if this is really a Tactics problem we should be dealing with?

The perfect camouflage would be a camouflage that automatically changes to your environment ala The Elandsberg Dwarf Chameleon Lizard. Maybe this sounds far-fetched but I'm sure some clever soul out there is all ready working on it, in some laboratory some where although price could be an issue.

[Ryujin]

I find it ironic all this talk on camouflage when the Taliban seem to have no trouble avoiding us on the field, so one has to wonder if this is really a Tactics problem we should be dealing with?

The perfect camouflage would be a camouflage that automatically changes to your environment ala The Elandsberg Dwarf Chameleon Lizard. Maybe this sounds far-fetched but I'm sure some clever soul out there is all ready working on it, in some laboratory some where although price could be an issue.

Well, I don't think dressing up like the locals would work to well for the whole British force... the Taliban are camouflaged to blend in with the civilian environment.

They are working on optical light bending camouflage I think. Looong way to go obviously.

[SKELLEN]

Well, I don't think dressing up like the locals would work to well for the whole British force... the Taliban are camouflaged to blend in with the civilian environment.

My point was not to dress like the Taliban (leave that to the super army soldiers) but rather how ironic spending money on camouflage when it could be better invested elsewhere - helicopters for example, which we have a shortage of in British Army.

[souldierz]

The perfect camouflage would be to transform the uniform like a chameleon lizard, and I got a funny feeling this will one day be done some how with nanotechnology and a good study of nature and how certain creatures like cuttlefish activate their color displays.Mix this with a helmet that has goggles built into it capable of switching to all kinds of different visions and you have a glimpse of the future universal soldier.Sign me up:D

[gautrek]

Oh, you should take a look at the Afghan forces! Of course they were likely given tips from their British trainers, so I guess you can say that indeed... nobody knows how to dress down as Brits

Why is that?

Is it a different mentality.I notice if i see images of yank troops they all seem like they have just left the parade ground.Even if they are out on combat duty.I can't comment on other nations as they don't get much coverage on our TV.I understand we have a agreement about allowing beards on duty to help with the integration.But is this dressing down just a brit thing?

[SKELLEN]

It does seem to be a Brit thing plus the fact that we end up bearing most of the fighting responsibility, excepting our U.S. friends of course.

I remember when my father served in The Light Infantry the only people that were allowed to grow a beard were the Assault Pioneers.

[Ryujin]

The perfect camouflage would be to transform the uniform like a chameleon lizard, and I got a funny feeling this will one day be done some how with nanotechnology and a good study of nature and how certain creatures like cuttlefish activate their color displays.Mix this with a helmet that has goggles built into it capable of switching to all kinds of different visions and you have a glimpse of the future universal soldier.Sign me up:D

At which point it doesn't matter what color your uniform is since they'll see you from miles away with their thermal-xray-sonar-EM-radar-magic goggles by the time they've made perfect visible light camo. I mean we've already got all sorts of neat thermal stuff, like the night vision/thermal hybrid monocle.

those ENVGs are neat stuff btw:

NVG:

NVG + thermal:

[SKELLEN]

Ah yes but what if I'm also in possession of thermal-xray-sonar-EM-radar-magic goggles while clad in my Lizard suit with low emissivity, an emissivity coefficient of .02? Emissivity can range from a theoretical 0.00 (completely not-emitting) to an equally-theoretical 1.00 (completely emitting).

[Ryujin]

Well then we're quickly back to square one, just with more expensive gadgetry.