Who uses SMOKE?

[Paper Tiger]

I confess that I use it a LOT when I'm playing missions and so I pay attention to wind direction and strength when I'm reading the briefings. Quite often, my battlefields have great plumes of smoke drifting across it as I'm making my assault. I don't use vehicle generated smoke to create smoke screens but I do use artillery deployed and infantry smoke very liberally. And there's uually plenty of this to go around in any given mission.

The reason I ask this is because I use it extensively when I'm playtesting my own missions. To be honest, I imagine some of my missions would be extremely difficult to win if you didn't use it copiously because moving units in the open in LOS of enemy units in CMSF is death for two (obvious) reasons,

first, their ability to spot enemy units is degraded, the faster the move, the greater the degradation.

and second, because it is much easier for stationary units to spot moving units.

I use SMOKE to move a unit into a position so that when the screen lifts, they are already in position and stationary. Given that your average US unit has better equipment than all but the best Syrian units, this gives them a better chance to 'spot' first, especially when they have already been 'informed' that there is an enemy unit in front of them by C2 links (which I also frequently take advantage of when playing as BLUE).

So do most of you guys USE it as well or is this a tool that is largely ignored from mission to mission?

[tyrspawn]

I make heavy use of smoke - although I only use artillery smoke when there is no other way to do it. This is mainly because I don't like to sit around to wait for a fire mission to go through, I like to keep the tempo violent.

[costard]

I used smoke once in the Marines campaign. 155mm. The spotting rounds took out the platoon I wanted to move, so it wasn't really that useful. I learned not to have the smoke mission too close to my guys.

[tyrspawn]

I used smoke once in the Marines campaign. 155mm. The spotting rounds took out the platoon I wanted to move, so it wasn't really that useful. I learned not to have the smoke mission too close to my guys.

155 danger close is 300 meters

[Chainsaw]

Im with Tyrspawn on this one, I use plenty of smoke but only when its really needed. the reason for that is two, the first Tyrspawn mentioned, I hate sitting on my but for those extra minutes and loose the tempo in the assault.

The second is the lack of smoke. you dont have many calls to call in untill they are totally depleted. and then you sit with your ass out later in the scenario when you really really really need that damned smoke.

On the other side, I use allot of the smoke handgrenades that the infantry squads carryes, I think I deplete all of them in a average scenario, wished I could replenish smoke...

[Ryujin]

I use smoke a bunch, though it does seem a bit gamely to smoke a position, walk right through the enemy 5 feet away, and then shoot them all when the smoke lifts (especially in buildings). I'd think the Syrians might at least notice you stepping on them... some times it just seems to go to extremes of effectiveness. I guess it's something of a fine line, but occasionally it gets ridiculous.

[Sandokan]

I, too, use artillery smoke pretty often and I find it very useful. Usually while I wait for the rounds incoming in one sector I keep on attacking in another one just to keep enemy under pressure. The only problem is if my guys ar too close to the target. In, uhm, "Homes in Hims" (?) I had a squd on the roof of a quite tall building and smoke rounds falled on the ground at around 150 meters. Result, one blue killed and two wounded. I learned that smoke can really hurts if used improperly...

This apart, the more smoke I have the better.

[Paper Tiger]

...it does seem a bit gamely to smoke a position, walk right through the enemy 5 feet away, and then shoot them all when the smoke lifts (especially in buildings).

Wow! I've never tried that. I use it for moving in on positions or for approaching very dangerous units like T-72s. They have a very nasty tendency to spot your javelin team hunting to get LOS to their positions. SMOKE their approach and they're sitting there nicely when the screen lifts and BLAM!

[Ryujin]

It's a great tactic for those tight spots when you need to get right on top of the enemy, especially since smoke will drift through buildings like they're not there. You drop tons of smoke, run in and calmly set up your platoon on top of them, and when the smoke lifts the US forces are usually faster on the draw. I don't use that tactic too much as it feels like a bit of an exploit.

[TheVulture]

I do like using infantry smoke (and Brit 51mm mortar smoke rounds), although it can be less useful in turn-based games since it can involve a certain amount of luck to get your guys moving at the right time to be effectively obscured (particularly with wind about).

I do try to avoid the deliberate use of smoke moving through buildings, since that is rather exploitable, but sometimes it is an unavoidable consequence of putting smoke in the right place.

The one time I used an artillery smoke mission (marine campaign somewhere) I managed to get some of my guys killed but it, since I assumed (not being remotely aware of such things) that i could move guys up through falling smoke rounds safely, when it turns out that exploding WP shells can actually harm people.... who knew?

[souldierz]

I try to take advantage of smoke anytime i can. Ive learn't never to underestimate the importance of smoke screens.

Usually in the beginning of the game if i am assaulting a urban area i call in artillery to lay smoke over the urban area or in front of it making a big cloud to cover them so they don't shoot me all at once from multiple positions while i am rolling in the open (a while back i heard the Israelis were getting flak for this tactic by human rights groups) and also i am able to pick them off 1 location at a time when the smoke clears and they start to shoot.

With the vehicles i use smoke to cover infantry movements moving from one street to the next or to cover bridges,water crossings, small fields and also to move my troops to better firing positions.When i assault a building using a Bradley with a squad inside i usually rush up to about 5-10 meters from the door, deploy smoke before dismounting my troops and then quick run beside the building so my men can peek in the windows then have them hunt their way in if they are not under fire.

For inf i usually have them throw smoke to block the enemies firing arcs while my troops move or crawl into firing positions inside of buildings or trenchs then i have them hide.When all the infantry are in good fire positions across the map i unhide them all and watch the firefight take place.That was an awsome tactic in the Brits demo when i had all my inf on the edge of the cliffs then got them all to reveal themselves at once then move the vehicles into hull down spots.

Smoke is a good tool to use and i use it often, so much that after a battle my poor pixel troops can be considered as second hand smokers.I try to keep that in mind and keep them away from the smoke as best i can.I wonder if running around in smoke can effect the troops stamina?If it does or doesnt i still try to be realistic and keep my inf away from smoke.Better for the enemy to choke on it then me.

[Sixxkiller]

Well anyone who wants to do well with the Brits will use it I dont actually consider it gamey, but when you actually hit the correct spot it tends to work better than in the real world Too bad none of the pixel trupen actually gag, weeze, or cough hehe.

[Piecekeeper]

Of course. If you doesn't got concealment....create one! I try to use it every time I'm crossing an open area.

[theFightingSeabee]

Who uses smoke?

What are you, a cop or something?

[gibsonm]

I use it for moving in on positions or for approaching very dangerous units like T-72s.

Well unless its multi-spectral (i.e. TI defeating) smoke, there's something flawed in the smoke "modelling".

Normal, artillery and hand smoke grenade delivered, smoke is not multi spectral and TI should see right through it.

So the T-72 should see you sneaking up on it and deal with it.

See what we can do to fix that.

[__Yossarian0815[jby]]

...it does seem a bit gamely to smoke a position, walk right through the enemy 5 feet away, and then shoot them all when the smoke lifts (especially in buildings).

Wow! I've never tried that. I use it for moving in on positions or for approaching very dangerous units like T-72s. They have a very nasty tendency to spot your javelin team hunting to get LOS to their positions. SMOKE their approach and they're sitting there nicely when the screen lifts and BLAM!

That is a weakness of the engine, though I don´t see how it can be avoided.

This is why playing humans is better than playing the AI. A human player with a T72 at his disposal will put an HE round into your little puff of infantry smoke, just to be on the safe side.

[Other Means]

"That's the point, isn't it?"

[MikeyD]

A human player with a T72 at his disposal will put an HE round into your little puff of infantry smoke

Yesterday I tried dropping 120mm mortar smoke close to my men in an attempt to get them across the road and wound up wounding and killing more of my own men than if I had run them across into the teeth of the MGs! It seems to be preferable to put the smoke on/near the enemy if you know where he is.

In WWII the Germans positively despised American Smoke rounds. By war's end 75m gun Shermans were using HC smoke shells in an emergency anti-armor role. Better to blind and choke that enemy Panther than to just scratch the paint job with impotent AP shot. What's that famous story, an M10 finds a Panther under the obilisk at the Place de la Concorde in Paris, fires a smoke round into him then rams.

[Dietrich]

I use it for moving in on positions or for approaching very dangerous units like T-72s. They have a very nasty tendency to spot your javelin team hunting to get LOS to their positions.

I lost a Javelin-operator to a T-62 in the third USMC campaign mission. The Javelin team was hunting into LOS behind some trees, the tank them and fired a shell (which I presume was HE) which passed right through the soldier with the Javelin (and of course the other guy didn't pick up the CLU). Next time I'll use the available howitzers to smoke the whole slope length-wise so that the suddenly-arriving-on-map units have a chance to do some good. :cool:

Was it really the American smoke shells themselves that the Germans despised or the Americans' propensity for using said shells?

[gibsonm]

Yesterday I tried dropping 120mm mortar smoke close to my men in an attempt to get them across the road and wound up wounding and killing more of my own men than if I had run them across into the teeth of the MGs! It seems to be preferable to put the smoke on/near the enemy if you know where he is.

Well that is the general idea in Real Life.

Putting it close to them:

a. Prevents any issues with carrier shells and other unplanned casualties.

b. It maximises the effect of a given amount of smoke a 100m screen close to the enemy obscures a much larger distance, whereas 100m placed near you only obscures, well, 100m.

c. Can mitigate the effects of wind, etc.

The whole ideas is that you know roughly where they are in order to obscure them. Dropping smoke "just in case" is a waste of ammunition (if no one is there after all) and of course attracts attention (refer the post above about the T-72 probably firing on the smoke "on spec") with a big "look at me" smoke cloud.

[Paper Tiger]

I should state for the record that I play this game exclusively against the AI* and the AI never takes a poke at a smoke cloud. I confess this tactic would be a total bust against a human player. I try to put the smoke on the target as it does cause casualties. I remember being unpleasantly surprised a LONG time ago to find that vehicle smoke inflicts casualties on friendly troops in close proximity to the vehicle.

* This being the reason why so many of the missions I design are tough to beat. They are designed solely to present ME with a tough challenge when playing against an AI controlled opponent.

[Paper Tiger]

Are you a cop or something?

I only feel compelled to speak out when it's used in conjunction with a grass mod

[__Yossarian0815[jby]]

I should state for the record that I play this game exclusively against the AI* and the AI never takes a poke at a smoke cloud. I confess this tactic would be a total bust against a human player. I try to put the smoke on the target as it does cause casualties. I remember being unpleasantly surprised a LONG time ago to find that vehicle smoke inflicts casualties on friendly troops in close proximity to the vehicle.

* This being the reason why so many of the missions I design are tough to beat. They are designed solely to present ME with a tough challenge when playing against an AI controlled opponent.

I wouldn´t go so far as to call it gamey, because it depends on the situation. The smoke will after all also make it hard for snipers to kill your Javelin team.

Also if there are lots of infantry around and they all throw out smoke a single real life/human player T72 might dither as to which target to engage. And to get even more academic , if the smoke were IR intransperent it would make it useful in the dark.

BTW does the AI ever area fire at suspected enemy positions?

I didn´t know that smoke can inflict casualties. Thx for the info.

[MikeyD]

and the AI never takes a poke at a smoke cloud.

The one exception is the AI "Support Target" opening bombardment in the editor, which admittedly is the human designer telling the AI what to do. 'UK Outmanoeuvred' occassionally drops a line of smoke to mask opening movements.

[snake_eye]

I must confess that I don’t use smoke rounds most of the time. However, I do use quite often smoke being sent by the tracks mortars, while moving, to attempt concealing them from an enemy possible field of fire. I also, use the smoke command when a squad is having problems. But it is less effective than the one of the tracks.

Why, I don’t use smoke artillery rounds ?. I have found that the delay necessary to obtain the barrage is rather long if you don’t have an artillery observer and besides depending of its field of view it is not always, easy to have it land in the right place. Usually, I don’t think at the moment of the setting of the barrage of the wind force and or its drift and that is, a costly mistake. Because of that, most of the time, my smoke barrage will lift before my guys get to their objective. Other times, I get to the objective, while the suppressing fire can not be bear on it, because of that smoke !

Less seriously :

Since, I have stop smoking a long time ago, I am no more annoyed by the smoke and don’t wipe tears out of my eyes with a Kleenex at the wrong time Since, I have regained full control of the monitor display. I have however kept, the Kleenex for the bad days, when I am strongly defeated in a good scenario.

Cheers