bstarr Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 It seems to me the Syrian War will be winding down with the next addition; I mean, there's just not that much more you can add to the ongoing storyline. However, I really like this game, and I would so like to see the system move to other modern conflicts. Who wouldn't want to see the IDF, the Iranian Army, Iraq (pre and post invasion), Russia, China, etc, etc? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 There's not enough commercial mass in any of these to warrant a full game. A module - who knows, but building all the gear will require somebody to make a pretty serious commitment. I think the IDF would sell pretty well, but you'd still have to hack up all the 1973 gear. Personally I'd like the first Gulf War (Iran<->Iraq) but that's unlikely to happen unless somebody already got all the vehicles in for other modules. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Well, i don't know you, but i'm tired of all that sand and arabian enemies. Why not taking the Theater to Europe? I miss the kommies 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex1 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I thought the next game was going to be ww2 with the shock force engine? Note also that they have opened the game to other companies who want it. The afganistan game being developed with cmsf is a prime example. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 CMSF2 will be in a temperate setting with top of the line Red equipment. What that means we can only speculate but Russia and China are the 2 nations that spring to mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yair Iny Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Well, i don't know you, but i'm tired of all that sand and arabian enemies. Why not taking the Theater to Europe? I miss the kommies Well, desperate tank battles on the Golan Heights, Syrian commandoes taking the Hermon, and then the failed retaking attempt by the Golani Brigade, followed by a successfuly heli-bourne attempt by the Paratroopers, would have nothing to do with desert But I know it ain't gonna happen... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 It would do BFC no financial good to purposefully deep-six the CMSF franchise. But let's remember the past CMx1 games. CMBB's arrival entirely sucked the air out of the CMBO chat room. Then CMAK did the same to CMBB, then CMSF did the same to CMAK. CMSF Marines caused us to stop talking about the Army, CMSF Brits caused us to stop talking about the Marines. Perhaps BFC's learned a lesson from this pattern and is going to try to keep multiple balls in the air at the same time. They're 'threatening' to do CMSF:NATO, CM:Normandy, and CM:Afghanistan in rapid succession, hopefully without each release inadvertantly killing off the previous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I think its natural progression. Most gamers play a game for a while then move on. One good thing about this type of game is if history is any indication, people will still be playing this 5-10 years from now. I know i will still play CMSF for a long time, but prob alot less than I will be playing WWII titles LOL. My favorite part of CMSF is still the base game and I still love pitting Blue vs Blue far more than Blue vs Red and I suspect that will never change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theFightingSeabee Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Perhaps BFC's learned a lesson from this pattern and is going to try to keep multiple balls in the air at the same time. They're 'threatening' to do CMSF:NATO, CM:Normandy, and CM:Afghanistan in rapid succession, hopefully without each release inadvertantly killing off the previous. I'm not sure any air will be let out until cmsf2 is near release. Since the cmsf base game is basically upgraded with every patch, it continues to grow. Also, I've noticed that a lot of the user made scenarios are still using US Army and USMC, not to mention Red vs Red, so as long as they keep patching cmsf, we will keep playing and posting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I would definitely like to see another CMSF in the modern era. CMSF2 sounds promising with a more modern Red force (Russia or China probably), but I think it's going to have to encompass air-to-surface and surface-to-air combat in some way to be believable. It would be really cool if aircraft were actually modeled in the game, 3d model and all, but more likely they will be abstracted again, but this time with on-map surface-to-air weapons having a chance of shooting them down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenix Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 It would be really cool if aircraft were actually modeled in the game, 3d model and all, but more likely they will be abstracted again, but this time with on-map surface-to-air weapons having a chance of shooting them down. I don't really care about fighters and bombers, but choppers should be modelled, as well as AA weapons to take them down. Wouldn't it be cool if a platoon of infantry reinforcements arrived in a blackhawk doing fast roping? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I don't really care about fighters and bombers, but choppers should be modelled, as well as AA weapons to take them down. Wouldn't it be cool if a platoon of infantry reinforcements arrived in a blackhawk doing fast roping? Heh, or an Apache involved in some behind-the-lines-blue-on-blue gets taken out by an SAS squad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 From BFC's point of view, it's easy to see how they can get the most bang for their development buck. The first CMx2 game was middle-east to capitalise on people's interest in that region thanks to real-world events like the invasion and occupation of Iraq, and they could also get away with leaving out hard to code stuff like rivers and bridges or high-polygon stuff like detailed buildings (middle-east buildings are all just boxes with the odd dome - at least in CM:SF). The British Forces and NATO modules are designed to squeeze more cash out of these settings whilst also giving them time to tweak the game engine to perfection. After 2 modules, they probably expect sales to decline to a trickle, so it's on to the next big game, Normandy. Here we will see the addition of all those hard to code things like bridges and water. They will probably also have optimised the engine sufficiently to be able to do more detailed buildings such as churches and the like. The cycle will then continue, i.e. at least 2 modules for CM:Normandy to squeeze as much revenue out of the setting as possible and tweak the game engine even further. The obvious next step is therefore to take the CM:Normandy engine, with all the nice additions such as bridges, water and lovely detailed buildings, and supplant modern weapons systems into it. This gives us CM:SF 2. I imagine the backstory to CM:SF 2 being something like the South Ossetian war of 2008. In other words, Russia is trying to re-establish herself as a major power in the world on a par with America or the EU. Meanwhile, NATO is continuing to acquire new member states close to Russia's borders. The Russians decide enough is enough and invade one of them. NATO responds and comes to the country's aid. You only have to see how far NATO enlargement has progressed to see that's how a future conflict with Russia is likely to occur (see image). The big green bit is the Ukraine, which has been promised an invitation to join NATO at some point in the future. Now that is really going to piss off the Russians! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 The British Forces and NATO modules are designed to squeeze more cash out of these settings whilst... That sounds like a "pessimist's" view. An different tack is a wargame with U.S., Marines, Britain, and other NATO players was always the plan but development time precluded everything being released together. After all, if they waited to assemble everything you'd still be waiting for the game! So they're not quite wringing the last drop of blood from the CMSF turnip, its more like they're stacking bricks one-by-one to complete the structure they had set out to build. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noltyboy Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I still vote for 80's cold war gone hot! As my little british pixeltrupen advance through the nuclear battlefields with there S6 resperators and SLR's while cheiftens clash with T72's............. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Will CMSF die? Yes, every game does eventually and for all that I like CMSF I'm not daft enough not to see what will happen here. Once the Normandy game arrives I think the general interest in SF will decline very sharply, maybe dramatically. You only have to compare CM-1 to CMSF to see why. CM-1 was a much more popular event, generated much more buzz around the web and had a lot more support from the users. Take scenarios, the number made for CM-1 far, far outweighs the amount available for SF, not only that, the amount of people making them was and still is far greater than that for SF. One tournament (run by me) has been run for SF as oppossed to literally hundreds for CM-1. Campaigns, meta campaigns, online campaigns - none for SF, and a lot for CM-1. Conclusion - WW2 simply still generates more interest than modern. Either that or SF is played in the vast majority by guys who are only interested in single player RT where the West always wins and boy will they be in for a surprise if SF is all they have played when CMN hits them. Thats why I think SF will wither on the vine once CM-N is out, it may be a great game, but what do you do when no one is supporting it anymore? Play the same campaign for the 20th time? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hcrof Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I still vote for 80's cold war gone hot! As my little british pixeltrupen advance through the nuclear battlefields with there S6 resperators and SLR's while cheiftens clash with T72's............. I don't see why BFC won't consider this. World in Conflict was a successful game based on that premise so I think there is a lot of interest. As well as that, based on average age, most wargamers will remember at least the end of the cold war so they have some connection to the events in the game. They can definately count on me to buy a couple of copies at any rate! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'm confused by your comment about the popularity of CM-1. I thought BFC took something of a bath on the CMBB title when all those who were so wild about CMBO refused, perversely, to touch the title. The people who loved it loved it (I was one of 'em) but as the old saying goes, love don't pay the rent. Its been my impression that CMSF has been successful because it escaped the 'wargame crazies' niche. I entirely expect when CM:Normandy comes out the same oldtimey 'wargame crazies' from CMBO days will stomp on CM:N because it will never live up to the fairydust-covered game of their dreams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I meant CM-1 as a whole and not the sum of its parts. I dont know what the 'wargame crazy' niche is, but I would have thought by now that SF should have been in it. Sadly, theres not all that much to do with SF once you get beyond the few scenarios available for it. Those 'crazies' are probably what kept CM-1 going for as long as it has and SF could have done with more than a few of them. You need a band of 'crazies' to keep alive the interest. Well, thats my humble opinion anyway, visit the scenario depot and see how many CMBO scenarios there are, compare this with CMSF after 2 years and I bet there are ten times ore BO scenarios after 2 years than SF. However, and only BF can answer this one - who is the primary target audience? Is it the guys who play a game thru the campaign single player and think its done, or is it other? I suspect its primarily this group the game is aimed at and not someone who is going to play the base game for years and years. And I can understand why too. Someone who bought CMBO or CMBB got a huge package, the whole war in one case and thats enough to keep anyone going for years...... but not very useful to people who want to sell software for a living. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstarr Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 The main thing I'm concerned about is that if they decide to press on that they 'start over' with what they have. In other words we have a CMSF that allows you to play, say, US vs China, but now you have an unlinked game so Syria, Brits and the Marines are out. Kind of like the way the first Combat Mission games were separate and not linked. ps. Not to mention the fact that this map I just spent the better part of a year working on will be obsolete! pps. That makes me wonder if the WWII game will be 'linked' with CMSF. Wouldn't that be a hoot to pitch Panzers against Abrams? Kind of one-sided, but interresting to watch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'm confused by your comment about the popularity of CM-1. I thought BFC took something of a bath on the CMBB title when all those who were so wild about CMBO refused, perversely, to touch the title. The people who loved it loved it (I was one of 'em) but as the old saying goes, love don't pay the rent. Its been my impression that CMSF has been successful because it escaped the 'wargame crazies' niche. I entirely expect when CM:Normandy comes out the same oldtimey 'wargame crazies' from CMBO days will stomp on CM:N because it will never live up to the fairydust-covered game of their dreams. But the only reliable information on sales numbers, the sales rank on Amazon.com, is still and always has been showing CMx1 as better selling than CMx2. This has been pretty much constant since Shock Force's release. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsallen64 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I think one of the main problems with interest in the CMx2 area of focus compared to CMx1 is the lack of historical and other materials. I mean, for WW2 there are TONS of books, videos, movies, etc. You read them, and you get the urge to try and fight the battles out yourself, to get a better "feel" for the time period. Many of the people that jumped on CMx1, like myself, grew up with this stuff on TV and the movies, and earned our stripes playing classic WW2 board games, like Squad Leader, Panzer Leader, etc. CMBO gave us a chance to test ourselves in ways we never imagined before, and it really, really, delivered! For CMx2, there's so little available. Not many books compared to WW2, few films, not many documentaries, etc. And we had no board games to speak of, did we? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 But the only reliable information on sales numbers, the sales rank on Amazon.com, is still and always has been showing CMx1 as better selling than CMx2. This has been pretty much constant since Shock Force's release. Except isn't that somewhat flawed as much of the sales revenue/volume will come from BF.com? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Except isn't that somewhat flawed as much of the sales revenue/volume will come from BF.com? Exactly right. We have the only reliable information on sales numbers there is. And while the actual numbers are not public, Steve has not really made a huge secret out of the overall trends in the past on this forum here. I still find it funny that some people are trying to tell us what the truth is when Steve or I (or Charles) only need to fire up our spreadsheets to look at it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dima Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Mozart passed away, so did Beethoven but their music still lives on and millions of people listen to it every day. Why should CMSF be any different? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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