SF Teams, where are they?

[Stainless]

Are there SF teams available for CMSF+Marines?

I'm creating new custom missions, and i'm wondering where the special units are?

Are there any Afghanistan maps available?

I'm missing SF Teams : Special Forces like commandos with equipment like SOFLAM (Laser Acquisition Marker)

For a game like this, modeling modern conflict, special units are must.

Maybe there are mods laying around which i overlooked, if there are please point them out.

Are there cool mod sites somewhere on the internet with extra land, sea and air equipment?

Thank you for the help.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

They are not in the game.

Remember, this game is made to model the initial invasion phase, done by conventional SBCT and HBCT forces. Hell, they didn't even have IBCT units until the as-yet-unreleased Brits module. Post-invasion, pre-invasion, and COIN ops have been decided as being "out of the scope of CMSF" by the designers.

Normal Dude has made some excellent uniform mods, but these only change the appearance of the units, not their characteristics--which no mod can change. BFC has not released the code or SDK necessary to make or change units' characteristics or equipment.

That said, that has not stopped people from trying. Try theFightingSeebee's "Afghani Stan" scenario for some SOF action, and Normal Dude is coming up with a new campaign based on this. It sounds like you also want to add to the mix, and the more the merrier!

[dan/california]

The Basic idea behind modding an SF team seems to involve a marine squad with the highest possible experience and equipment. There is a uniform mod floating around.

[meade95]

Really wish BFC would just allow for customers to set an even more experienced, situational aware and overall above current elite unit. As is now, I simply don't see elite as enough for a small ReCon unit.

[JonS]

It's actually pretty easy to do SF, depending on your expectations. A USMC Recon Platoon makes a reasonable facsimile of an SF unit, and the first mission of the USMC Campaign - Semper Fi, Syria! - uses a very few of them (8 guys, all up, IIRC) in a beach-recon role, supported by some fairly serious off-board fire-support. The main idea is to see with out being seen.

If you want 'situational awareness', just bump up the pre-battle intel setting.

As usual imagination is the main limiting factor, rather than the game itself.

[Sequoia]

There was once talk about using a Blue operative to simulate a Special Forces team member reporting in from behind the lines but I guess they decided to not go that route.

[MikeyD]

If you want 'Special Forces' in the game you could stick a FO in a hole in the dark on a hillside and keep him there through the whole battle.

[ChrisND]

If you want 'Special Forces' in the game you could stick a FO in a hole in the dark on a hillside and keep him there through the whole battle.

That would cover a huge amount of them for sure.

I have made some SOF mods, but they are visual only and even then only textures, since we cannot change the 3D models themselves. So a lot of equipment that visually defines SOF is out. Check out the repository for them. I am also working on a Version 2 for them that will be used in my Vanguard campaign.

Using some editor kung-fu and a bit of imagination, we can create these units ourselves. For my vanguard campaign, which uses a 12 man ODA as the core, I grabbed bits and pieces of US Light Infantry and Stryker units:

x1 2 man HQ unit (Captain)

x1 3 man sniper unit (1 sniper, 1 M203)

x1 5 man Scout unit (1 M240G)

x1 2 man JTAC unit

It's not perfect, but it works well enough. Using a 13-man Marine squad also works in a pinch. Set them to Elite experience and Fanatic motivation, and you have yourself a pack of killers.

If Battlefront were to model them: There are a lot of SOF, and they are very diverse in form, function, and equipment. It would be folly to attempt to model all of them. Instead it would have to be 2-3 generic set ups with generic "high-speed" equipment. The largest amount of effort would likely be in artwork for new equipment, because the only Combat Mission relevant qualities I can think of that they would have would be: more ease in calling air support, higher concentration of communications equipment and specialists, lessened penalties for being out of chain of command, better close-range fighting and long distance shooting. Much of the other defining skills relate to how to how they get to the battlefield and what they do besides being in front line combat, which is not their primary purpose and also out of Combat Mission's scope.

[dan/california]

If you want 'Special Forces' in the game you could stick a FO in a hole in the dark on a hillside and keep him there through the whole battle.

But it would have to be a high speed/low drag hole full of neat camping gear.

[ChrisND]

What would be really interesting is a stand alone module that covers some classic SF-raising-a-guerrilla-force action. There is plenty of precedent for it in Iraq and Afghanistan. It would also have the distinction of being a "Purple" module, with Red uncons doing the bulk of the fighting.

[theFightingSeabee]

While SF units would be cool, it isn't going to happen. Steve has mentioned that the game was created for what it's used for, and not for an SF environment.

With that said, a little imagination goes a long way. With a uniform mod, elite/fanatic settings, and the right unit selection, it works out just fine. There's been a couple scenarios including <cough cough> Afghani Stan and the much disliked Bridge Busters that attempt to do this.

[meade95]

If Battlefront were to model them: There are a lot of SOF, and they are very diverse in form, function, and equipment. It would be folly to attempt to model all of them. Instead it would have to be 2-3 generic set ups with generic "high-speed" equipment. The largest amount of effort would likely be in artwork for new equipment, because the only Combat Mission relevant qualities I can think of that they would have would be: more ease in calling air support, higher concentration of communications equipment and specialists, lessened penalties for being out of chain of command, better close-range fighting and long distance shooting. Much of the other defining skills relate to how to how they get to the battlefield and what they do besides being in front line combat, which is not their primary purpose and also out of Combat Mission's scope.

Excellent advice if BFC ever wanted to add something like this in - (It would certainly help sales.....and wouldn't do anything in the way of taking away from what the core of CMSF is to begin with). It would just allow for customers to make a variety of other missions....or add a small (side action more or less) to larger sceanrios.

[theFightingSeabee]

I pretty much agree, but they're already setting sights on NATO and Normandy. I'd love to see a third party developer do something cool with SF though, like with Afghanistan.

[cabal23]

There was once talk about using a Blue operative to simulate a Special Forces team member reporting in from behind the lines but I guess they decided to not go that route.

Correct me if I am wrong, but couldn't you momentarily switch the mission setting in the editor to red vs red, select a spy and add it to your force, switch it back to blue vs red and viola, a Blue Operative.

Also on another note, ignore what BF says about this not being intended for small ops and do what you want with the editor. The possibilities are there you just need to work it out. I have done two scenario's in Columbia for counter drug ops, two in Afghanistan, one in Egypt, and am preparing one for Mexico. The beautiful thing is uncons could be from any country, being that terrorism is global. It can be done and often times requires a bit of explanation in the briefing. I am working on a scenario where SF's infiltrate through the water (Mod) up onto a shore and under a dock, then through a drainage pipe up into a building. They must enter the building and hopefully take out the conscript guards that are there, eventually they will infiltrate further inland and take on small groups of conscript and green soldiers. This is accomplished with just a few squads of elite, excellent armed US Scouts. You are probably wondering how you create a dock and a drainage tunnel? String some level one building together at one level below the building you want it to connect to(a two or three level builing set in to a hilly incline leading out to "sea". Then take out all of the walls. You will be left with something that resembles a dock and your troops can walk across it or uncons can patrol the roofs. Unfortunately you cannot put flavor items on the dock because they fall through the ceiling and end up under the dock(great for trash and debris under the dock though). The drainage pipe would be the building connecting to the building to be entered. This requires some elevation mastery but it can be worked out. The end result is something very cool. Have you troops move SLOW while in the water. This simulates swimming (This will be stated in briefing). Move under the "dock"(actually through a string of houses without walls), up the stairs into the building. Viola assault by Seal's through infiltration. When you have the water mod going and the SF uniform mod it looks awesome. In a day or two I will post a video so you can see how cool it looks. If your do the elevations right it looks like water around the dock. All of this by pushing that engine as far as possible and using a few mods. I think they are shooting themselves in the foot by not giving players a few more options for smaller missions like this. But they are small and Charles is one man, so with that said, let your imagination do the work. I will continue to push my scenarios outside the scope it was intended for because it is what people are asking for. Something outside the drab Syrian landscape until the temperate modules arrive. On that note there are also mods turning all of your middle-eastern style building into European ones. So your limitations are only the actual Syrian Army, as it's forces are pretty distinct, as are most countries force selection.

[meade95]

Correct me if I am wrong, but couldn't you momentarily switch the mission setting in the editor to red vs red, select a spy and add it to your force, switch it back to blue vs red and viola, a Blue Operative.

Also on another note, ignore what BF says about this not being intended for small ops and do what you want with the editor. The possibilities are there you just need to work it out. I have done two scenario's in Columbia for counter drug ops, two in Afghanistan, one in Egypt, and am preparing one for Mexico. The beautiful thing is uncons could be from any country, being that terrorism is global. It can be done and often times requires a bit of explanation in the briefing. I am working on a scenario where SF's infiltrate through the water (Mod) up onto a shore and under a dock, then through a drainage pipe up into a building. They must enter the building and hopefully take out the conscript guards that are there, eventually they will infiltrate further inland and take on small groups of conscript and green soldiers. This is accomplished with just a few squads of elite, excellent armed US Scouts. You are probably wondering how you create a dock and a drainage tunnel? String some level one building together at one level below the building you want it to connect to(a two or three level builing set in to a hilly incline leading out to "sea". Then take out all of the walls. You will be left with something that resembles a dock and your troops can walk across it or uncons can patrol the roofs. Unfortunately you cannot put flavor items on the dock because they fall through the ceiling and end up under the dock(great for trash and debris under the dock though). The drainage pipe would be the building connecting to the building to be entered. This requires some elevation mastery but it can be worked out. The end result is something very cool. Have you troops move SLOW while in the water. This simulates swimming (This will be stated in briefing). Move under the "dock"(actually through a string of houses without walls), up the stairs into the building. Viola assault by Seal's through infiltration. When you have the water mod going and the SF uniform mod it looks awesome. In a day or two I will post a video so you can see how cool it looks. If your do the elevations right it looks like water around the dock. All of this by pushing that engine as far as possible and using a few mods. I think they are shooting themselves in the foot by not giving players a few more options for smaller missions like this. But they are small and Charles is one man, so with that said, let your imagination do the work. I will continue to push my scenarios outside the scope it was intended for because it is what people are asking for. Something outside the drab Syrian landscape until the temperate modules arrive. On that note there are also mods turning all of your middle-eastern style building into European ones. So your limitations are only the actual Syrian Army, as it's forces are pretty distinct, as are most countries force selection.

Great missions you have created / and are in the process of - However, I still believe the "elite" level setting isn't enough in terms of simming out small SOF direct action units. I believe a tweak in weapons accuracy (CQC) as well as overall situational awareness needs to be heighten as well....... I wish BFC would just allow for an additional tweak of such areas at the customers own wish/discretion (for user made scenarios / missions).

I'm very happy to hear...that they have tweaked the time limit up to 4 hours (in the up coming patch).....

[Combatintman]

Well dial down the enemy then - you then achieve the same effect.

[Dietrich]

Really wish BFC would just allow for customers to set an even more experienced, situational aware and overall above current elite unit. As is now, I simply don't see elite as enough for a small ReCon unit.

Am I mistaken, or are even direct-action-oriented SOF units actually not squads of Rambos, contrary to the popular [mis]conception thereof?

I find Elite-experience units quite capable if used correctly. For example, if when busting into a building you send your Elite USMC engineer squad (simulating an ODA geared for direction action) into the structure with the Assault move order without a simultaneous Area Fire order on the structure so as to suppress the enemy therein, then the moving half of the squad will, upon entering the building, be cut to pieces no worse than a Regular or Veteran squad with merely Normal morale.

To put it in perspective, I have played the first mission of the USMC campaign several times and consistently inflicted dozens of casualties without suffering a single casualty because I handled my handful of troops judiciously.

But doesn't Fanatic motivation mean the unit will never retreat/"bug out"? Isn't part of what makes a SOF soldier formidable his keen sense of when to fall back?

I think Fanatic motivation is best reserved for insurgents, i.e., fighters/combatants who are actually fanatic and don't care if falling back would allow them to live to fight another day.

[Apocal]

Am I the only one who openly questions just how effective all the gucci gear is once you're past the squad level?

[ChrisND]

Am I the only one who openly questions just how effective all the gucci gear is once you're past the squad level?

Who said anything about gear and effectiveness? It isn't the gear, it's the training and quality of personnel.

[ChrisND]

Elite is suited just fine for SF purposes, and if a players want to make the difference even more pronounced, then turn down Reds experience, as Combatintman pointed out. No need for a Super Duper Awesome experience setting.

But doesn't Fanatic motivation mean the unit will never retreat/"bug out"? Isn't part of what makes a SOF soldier formidable his keen sense of when to fall back?

I don't think it does, but I could be wrong on that.

[meade95]

I guess, my comments are coming off too a degree wrong. I'm not suggesting at all some super-duper non-realistic elite level - I'm just suggesting (and too a degree maybe this is BFC says CMSF isn't meant to simulate)....that if there were an option to help increase the efficiency of speed and fire accuracy for small DA units it would be helpful in simulating such DA SOF operatoins.....in given situations. Small CQCombat, where a known enemy unit is present and a DA unit is tasked with taking said locaiton down.....

As is now, I see too often, even with elite units, their speed and their seeming situational awareness upon entering given locaitons lacking.........

But there have been good points made.....that tweaking down enemy units maybe the key to offsetting this....(on given created missions).