CMSF2: Kim's Bad Hair Day

[ASL Veteran]

We've all been talking a lot about CM:N lately, but BFC does have that top secret 'other' game they have been working on in parallel with CM:N namely CMSF2. I haven't seen a lot of official commentary on this, but it seems this will be a modern game set in a 'temperate' zone with a full scale 'regular' battle setting involving major powers going toe to toe. I generally think in terms of Europe for this, but after thinking about Kwazydog's brief comment a while back that they could do a Korea game with a few supporting textures I have come to the conclusion that Korea would be the perfect venue for CMSF2. All the big players could plausibly be represented in a Korea game. For Red forces you would obviously have North Korea, but you could also have China and even Russia could be tossed in the mix. On the Blue side you would have the US and the ROK forces in South Korea, all the NATO rapid reaction forces could potentially be in the mix, Australian and New Zealand forces could be represented, as well as Taiwanese and Japanese forces. Russian forces could also potentially be considered blue in this theater depending upon circumstance.

The equipment mixes for these powers would be quite interesting too. Taiwan has a lot of older equipment like M60A3s and M113s and stuff like that, the Japan Self Defense forces have some M48s in the inventory along with their own modern MBT designs so you would have a lot of equipment variety. Of course, no Japan Self Defense Forces module would be complete without a special "Godzilla" and "Mothra" unit thrown in . The ROK has their own MBT designs along with some T80s and BMPs that they apparently bought from the Russians for some reason as well as some older US stuff. There is a lot of unique Chinese and North Korean stuff and there is all the Russian stuff as well. Maybe the French could make an appearance. New terrain like Rice Paddies could be introduced since they will have had water conquered by then. I could see having a lot of fun with a CMSF2: Kim's Bad Hair Day. Maybe we could get some more official 'flesh' on the CMSF2 bones that have been lightly scattered about here and there.

[ChrisND]

I've been meaning to make a CMSF Korea scenario/campaign, and I recently started sketching out some ideas. Almost all of the mods necessary to make it visually happen are already in place, except for North Korean stuff.

[Kwazydog]

I generally think in terms of Europe for this, but after thinking about Kwazydog's brief comment a while back that they could do a Korea game with a few supporting textures I have come to the conclusion that Korea would be the perfect venue for CMSF2.

Hehe good memory ASL!

Just to clarify at that time I was mainly referring to the fact that most of the units are already in game to represent a NK conflict as NKs military equipment is somewhat of a sub-set of Syrians gear. At the tactical level Id suggest that NK would provide a softer opponent than Syria as they lack some of the modern warheads and vehicles. They do make up for it in sheer numbers though.

That being said the scenario you suggest involving Russia and China would certainly make for an interesting selection of equipment though, thats for sure.

Dan

[Michael Emrys]

Of course, no Japan Self Defense Forces module would be complete without a special "Godzilla" and "Mothra" unit thrown in .

Now that's just tacky!

Michael

[ASL Veteran]

Now that's just tacky!

Michael

With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound

He pulls the spitting high tension wires down

Helpless people on a subway trains

Scream "My God" as he looks in on them

He picks up a bus and he throws it back down

As he wades through the buildings toward the center of town

Oh no, they say he's got to go Oh no Godzilla

Oh no, there goes Tokyo Oh no Godzilla

Why wouldn't the inclusion of Godzilla in a Japanese Self Defense Forces module be a good thing? Sure, there would be issues of Godzilla's size vs the available map sizes. According to the historical documents I've researched it would appear that the tallest of trees are a bit short of his knees. The ever reliable Wikipedia lists his height as varying between 164 and 328 feet tall and his weight varying between 20,000 and 60,000 tons. Mud might be a problem for Godzilla at that weight, although his feet do look pretty big. I can't think of a more difficult battle scenario than taking a Japanese Self Defense Force tank battalion up against Godzilla. The historical documents seem to indicate that all modern weaponry is ineffective at stopping Godzilla so the player would probably need to be able to use various tricks like power lines in order to try to take Godzilla down. I understand that coding up Godzilla would take up a lot of Charle's valuable time, but if he could only code one of the following three items: Co Play, a linking module for the titles, or Godzilla I think that coding up Godzilla would win out every time.

[JonS]

I think Godzilla and Mothra (and Killer Tomatoes, incidentally) are planned as modules for CM:SLoD.

[19Kyle72]

The whole North Korea thing really picked up a LOT of heat this week, and, honestly, I never seriously thought that it'd get THIS hot. Just another Cold War stalemate, but man, that nuke and rocket testing sure is a major means of rattling one's sabers.

If China were to seriously backup an embargo, we could just stop shipping them food and not fire a round; unless, of course, they threatened to nuke someone if that measure was taken. I certainly don't want anybody to starve here, but I feel that it's perfectly predictable that in such a situation that the military would get whatever food is available locally, and it would be almost entirely civilians that would suffer the agony and terror of being hungry. Awful to even contemplate.

The idea of a campaign against North Korea now seems far more plausible than in the past, but if one wants encounters against top of the line units and means, would that even qualify? That region is such a mess that it's plausible to makeup almost any excuse to have a certain nation take up an alliance with NK, but what a headache inducing story that could be!

And Godzilla EATS electricity. So, electrical lines, unless seasoned with a generous amount of cyanide, really won't do the trick.

Oh, and Blue Oyster Cult ROCKS. Give me my "Black Blade."

Michael Moorcock+BOC=pure genius?

;-D

[JonS]

... unless, of course, they threatened to nuke someone ...

Just FWIW, they can't nuke anyone except themselves at the moment, since they have NO credible delivery system. Even nuking themsleves would probably be a stretch for the next reasonable while. And even then, it'd be a substantially smaller nuking than Horishima or Nagasaki got.

It'd still not be trivial, to be sure, (and I'm not wishing it one anyone, even NK) but it's useful to keep some perspective.

[Cpl Steiner]

Latest in the sabre-rattling is that they have declared the 1953 ceasefire over - so technically the war has already started.

[birdstrike]

With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound

He pulls the spitting high tension wires down

Helpless people on a subway trains

Scream "My God" as he looks in on them

He picks up a bus and he throws it back down

As he wades through the buildings toward the center of town

Oh no, they say he's got to go Oh no Godzilla

Oh no, there goes Tokyo Oh no Godzilla

Why wouldn't the inclusion of Godzilla in a Japanese Self Defense Forces module be a good thing? Sure, there would be issues of Godzilla's size vs the available map sizes. According to the historical documents I've researched it would appear that the tallest of trees are a bit short of his knees. The ever reliable Wikipedia lists his height as varying between 164 and 328 feet tall and his weight varying between 20,000 and 60,000 tons. Mud might be a problem for Godzilla at that weight, although his feet do look pretty big. I can't think of a more difficult battle scenario than taking a Japanese Self Defense Force tank battalion up against Godzilla. The historical documents seem to indicate that all modern weaponry is ineffective at stopping Godzilla so the player would probably need to be able to use various tricks like power lines in order to try to take Godzilla down. I understand that coding up Godzilla would take up a lot of Charle's valuable time, but if he could only code one of the following three items: Co Play, a linking module for the titles, or Godzilla I think that coding up Godzilla would win out every time.

But the JDF would get all that fancy secret weapons like maser tanks, sub zero rays and armored jets - and don't forget MECHAGODZILLA!

And btw, here's the first leaked beta video of BF's SLoD vs. Godzilla:

[ASL Veteran]

But the JDF would get all that fancy secret weapons like maser tanks, sub zero rays and armored jets - and don't forget MECHAGODZILLA!

And btw, here's the first leaked beta video of BF's SLoD vs. Godzilla:

Wow, BFC has really done a great job on the animations so far. The textures look decent too. That must also be a preview of how BFC is going to implement water in their games because that water looked pretty realistic. My only nitpick would be that I think the space lobster's pincers came off a little too easily during the fight. I think maybe the beta testers should work on that a little bit and suggest some balancing adjustments.

[birdstrike]

Probably, because that's a MkI, later versions have the reinforced sockets and breast plates with appliqe armor, AFAIK.

[Clevinger]

Latest in the sabre-rattling is that they have declared the 1953 ceasefire over - so technically the war has already started.

Technically, the 1953 Korean armistice was never followed by a peace treaty, so the war never ended . The list of incidents on the DMZ is very interesting from this perspective. Especially the famous operation "Paul Bunyan" .

[Bonecrusher-17]

Korea as a campaign? Not so much IMHO. If we ever go to blows with the DPK in all likely hood any conventional blows would be short lived, if at all. The DPK doesn't have the logistical muscles to sustain a conventional fight, so they'd probably strike Nuke/Chem first or shortly there after.

I know it seems to some that IRAQ/AFGHAN/IRAN was covered by CMSF already, but I think a more extensive exploration of low instensity side of war on terror would be more realistic and more interesting to build off of CMSF for a campaign.

[LongLeftFlank]

And as I've noted before, the US has spent a half century mapping NK deployments and positions in excruciating detail and bracketing them with appropriate munitions.

Even before NBC started being used, I suspect NK troop casualties in the first 8-12 hours would exceed Somme levels. Move and die basically... followed by sit-still-and-die. Followed by die if you're in or near a known DPRK military facility not immediately adjacent to the Chinese or Russian borders.

Not that this would be much consolation to the innocent citizenry of the Seoul-Wonju metroplex, who would endure Tokyo firebombing level losses (or worse if significant NBC came in).

[Combatintman]

I know it seems to some that IRAQ/AFGHAN/IRAN was covered by CMSF already, but I think a more extensive exploration of low instensity side of war on terror would be more realistic and more interesting to build off of CMSF for a campaign.

Agreed that there is the potential there but do you really think that this has been nailed? The kit isn't there to do the Iranians justice. I think you need to be careful about your use of the term 'low intensity' - for instance ask the blokes who were on the rooftops in Musa Qal'eh or Sangin in Afghanistan whether they were in a low intensity conflict. There is certainly scope in CMSF in its current iteration to do Afghanistan and the warfighting bit and other ops in Iraq - the full scope of COIN can't be done and I don't think there is an appetite for it - any shura grogs out there for instance? I would like to see better representation of civilians but it isn't going to happen so it limits opportunities to a degree.

[Sivodsi]

The whole North Korea thing really picked up a LOT of heat this week, and, honestly, I never seriously thought that it'd get THIS hot.

;-D

Well, as a resident of Seoul, I can tell you the Sth Korean people are taking it in their stride. Nobody here expects anything to actually happen, life is going on as normal.

If anything does happen its more likely to be a naval action in the disputed maritime border on the west coast.

The only ones who are really panicking are the Japanese. Sadly, it the kind of threat that can only strengthen the hand of the conservative right wingers in that country.

This ballyhoo is all about Kim trying to beef up his position so that its his chosen one who will succeed him, not some other faction's. At least this is what I've read - beats me how he expects this strategy to work, perhaps the more isolated Nth Korea gets, the more likely he is to get his way.

The sad thing is, its the Nth Korean people who suffer for his insanity.

[Sivodsi]

And there you have it.

The next leader of NK has been announced, and this is the best picture we have of him???