Time limit

[Adio]

Hello all

I`d like to say, i love to play CMSF!

But there is a problem called time limit.

When i played the Campaign at first time, it wasn`t really disturbing. Nope, it was kinda exciting.

But now i play this missions again... i want to try some new tactics, playing without stop to give orders and i also would like to observe my soldiers in the battle from a near ankle.

But to finish a mission like so, i have no chance, cuz of the time limit!

So is there a way, to delete it?

Today i played a quickmission on a big city-map without checking time. I was still at the beginn and after 30mins it said, time over

Help me please

I`m sure, i am not the only one who don`t like that.

[Sixxkiller]

I dont think there are any plans to get rid of time limits.

[meade95]

The lack of the option to turn-OFF time limits is one of the most frustrating (and basically ridiculous) features of CMSF / BFC.

Regardless, still a great game and company.

[akd]

I do think there is a reason for most missions to have a time limit. However, I would like to see the upper limit removed in the editor. I don't see any reason for the artificial cap.

[theFightingSeabee]

I would love a no time option, or at least any time I want.

[rune]

Reason there is a time limit, No water resupply in game, no ammo resupply in game to the vehicles, exhaustion of the pixeltruppen moving in 110 degree heat, scenario design becomes a nightmare, [how much artillery do I give since i expect to take the objective in 2 hours and the player is now at the 8th hour] and that is what is just off the top of my head. An unlimited time mission becomes an operation, and would require many different things.

Rune

[Uedel]

well tbh Rune,

by giving the Option of no time for the Sceneditor doesn't mean u got to make your head about the things u described, it is the Job of the Scenario Designer to make him self a head about all the things u describe.

Simply just the option of no timers and no changes else, u run out of ammo because u needed 4 hrs for this Mission, welcome u are a bad commander............

Its not to give extra tools, but just Freedom to do things..............

[Pvt. Ryan]

I would like the option of having no time limit in quick battles. I would also like the ability to extend the time in scenarios, but I understand what Rune is saying.

[Sixxkiller]

I would venture a guess that its more for the QB's that there is a limit than scenarios. Resupply comes directly to mind as a huge reason why I can see time limits.

But ya sometimes even when overtime triggers and you get an extra time bonus (depending on how you look at it being a bonus) its not long enough in some of my most memorable battles. Would have liked to have a few more rounds.

[meade95]

Why are supply issues a concern of BFC (in the sense of simply givng the customer the option of "no time limits")...These concerns are on him, if he runs out of supply, etc.

Furthermore, the supply issue won't even be an issue more often than not.....as all the "no-time-limit" option would allow for.....is a slower pace of progression by units (with more ability to micro-manage in RT).

This whole notion of supply issues I find very odd. You can still make scenarios in which it would be optimal for it to be done within X amount of time (or even require be done so without suffering a loss).....However, the option of no time limits would simply allow indiviudal customers to go about playing XY & Z missions in a manner in which they would like to, regardless....

I love CMSF and think BFC (Steve) does a great job on the whole.......However, not having the no-time-limit option I find foolish and needless.

[SlapHappy]

There's a lot more than just time scale involved in determining what is and is not "operational" scale....

In another thread, a poster posted a real WWII map depicting the battle area for a 3 battalion frontage of attack (2 in contact, 1 in reserve). That engagement actually lasted around 2 days. Still wasn't operational scale.

[panzermartin]

In Real time lots of time goes by without doing much. It's a LOT different than WeGo where action is packed in 1 minute turns. I find this particulary ridiculous in QBs where you cant play with small forces in something larger than a tiny map because of the 20 and 25mins limits.

[SlapHappy]

In Real time lots of time goes by without doing much. It's a LOT different than WeGo where action is packed in 1 minute turns. I find this particulary ridiculous in QBs where you cant play with small forces in something larger than a tiny map because of the 20 and 25mins limits.

That's a very good point. Who's to say firefights and ammo expenditure are occurring for more than a small portion of the total time during a scenario?

[MarkEzra]

That's a very good point. Who's to say firefights and ammo expenditure are occurring for more than a small portion of the total time during a scenario?

QB use variable time setting. I play and test with QB a lot. The other day a game ended Exactly on time! It was an event...can't recall the last time THAT happened.

It may not be the way you or I might wish it, but variable time QB's do tend to help.

[-Pv-]

I have not played QBs regularly due to their clumsiness in the game.

I can see that more conditions would have to be written into the game to remove time limits completely. If one side or both run out of ammo, how are win conditions determined? The pixelmen are not designed to eliminate each other hand to hand. Does the one side that runs out all go MIA? Can you hold ground against an enemy that cannot shoot? I also strongly suspect that running out of ammo without a win would be poor scenario design regardless of the time allotted.

I have very much enjoyed the scenarios where a little bonus time shows up.

Sometimes I have won because of the timer stopping just as I was about to lose ground.

-Pv-

[dima]

There is an easy solution. Open a mission in Mission Editor and set whatever time limit you want. Then save it and play!

I do it very often myself with many user-made missions.

In real life the tasks in typical CM missions we do take 5 times as much to ensure that unnecessary casualties are avoided. Noone is expecting you to capture a town in 1 hour

[MikeyD]

Open a mission in Mission Editor and set whatever time limit you want.

Ah, you beat me to it! Just what I was going to suggest.

Two caviats, though. You can't crack open the Campaign to change the times, the AI movement orders will stop once you go into extended play, and I'm not entirely sure what will happen when you play your buddy over the internet and his scenario goes for 30 min and yours goes for 2 hrs.

I've been working on something like five scenarios recently - every one of them I played through once then added an extra ten minutes - sometimes I added an extra 20!

[theFightingSeabee]

No one is saying the time limit should be abolished, just optional. I try to take my time and be as tactical as possible, covering my movements, etc. There are so many great scenarios that just don't let you do that. Yeah, I sometimes edit the time to the full 2:15, but on many occasions still end up rushing at the end. This is where I end up getting most of my casualties!

And if you run out of ammo, just hit the Cease Fire button! Come on now!

WOW EARTHQUAKE! RIGHT NOW! Must mean God wants a time limit!

[rune]

well tbh Rune,

by giving the Option of no time for the Sceneditor doesn't mean u got to make your head about the things u described, it is the Job of the Scenario Designer to make him self a head about all the things u describe.

Simply just the option of no timers and no changes else, u run out of ammo because u needed 4 hrs for this Mission, welcome u are a bad commander............

Its not to give extra tools, but just Freedom to do things..............

Not correct. What is the ai going to do with a plan? After 2 hours, the ai will just sit there? Then why bother expandng the time limit? If you are on defense, how do you get the Ai to keep attacking after the ai plan wears out? If attacking, the well planned counter attack by the ai time limits are gone.

My scenarios all have a lot of time to give the player time to do things slowly. I agree with Mike, I had them tested, and added tiime to the player who took the longest.

Yes, it IS an operation in game terms. Think of what you are saying, I can expand a game literally DAYS with no time limit. To play indefinitely with zero suppliesm zero water, zero exhaustion means this is no longer an accurate wargame.

There would have to be massive code changes, more command slots per unit, to cover the extra time for the ai. That or you only play attack missions. Also you know the ai won't change plans after 2 hours.

There is a lot more to it then anyone is thinking.

Rune

[SlapHappy]

Seriously? Are you ok?

[theFightingSeabee]

Richter magnitude 4.4, epicenter a few miles away (at my favourite beach campsite Leo Carillo!!!). I just heard a low rumble and one sharp jolt! It was a very odd earthquake.

I seriously don't understand the problem.

Do the ai plans END at 2:15?

If you're assaulting a defending ai, won't they continue to sit there?

If the ai plan is to hold point A, will they not continue to try to go there? (I know the ai probably wouldn't take 2 hours to get to point A unless you added very large pauses.)

Resupply? If you run out of ammo, fall back and cease fire. Falling back with low ammo is a challenge all it's own!

[akd]

Seems the time limit thing touches on some ego issues. How about mandatory time limit for elite setting?

[MarkEzra]

Seems the time limit thing touches on some ego issues.

Have truer words ever been spoken...The whole darned game does!

[snake_eye]

Time limit is the base line of a scenario maker. The A.I plans are made with the time limit in mind. The objectives, the number of points take it in account to have a more or less realistic battle.

To my point of view to alter the time limit and or remove its set time, that's like a car setup for a specific race and being used in another one with parameters having nothing to do with it.

The car might still be beautiful to look at, but it will not deliver the power it has been set for.

You still can consider altering the time limit, it is again a question of choice. Anyone has the right to play a battle becoming dull after it had its time limit removed.

Cheer

[birdstrike]

Not to argue about extending the sometimes very short time limits in QBs, but for 'real' scenarios, I see issues.

"I wished I had another 20 minutes" is a little different from getting unlimited time (hours, days, weeks?). For a player, it doesn't seem to matter much, but for scenario designing, you'd see yourself faced with a number of issues.

Of course you could argue that a "use at own risk" toggle for disabling the time limit would not affect designers in any way, but how many players would enjoy a scenario going 'dumb' after 2hs and play on for another couple of hours? And to say it's a scenario designer's issue how to deal with unlimited time is maybe asking a little too much.

Thing is, the player can easily adapt to extended time limits, that I'm sure of, but the AI cannot.

The player can use the ammo stocks in vehicles, or pull back the units once they ran out of ammo, but we we have an AI which can't do neither.

In some scenarios AI troops run out of ammo in much less than an hour. For long engagements the AI would either need an option to automatically receive supply in the field, or more ammo stocks to begin with.

Also, AI plans would need longer time limits, too. Otherwise the AI would go stationary" (I don't think they'd stop working), once it has carried out its final order. And if longer AI times are implemented, planning such a monster could get a nightmare. Where do I send the AI troops in 4hs? Or 5?

AI planning as it is can be a pita. AI planning for hours and hours to come - just how many designers would want to deal with that?

And in addition, reinforcements would need an option to arrive later (much, much later, indeed). Especially if we have AI troops running out of ammo, we would need fresh reinforcements all through the scenario.

And by all means, I'm strogly suggesting we first focus on extending the reinforcement arrivals to the current 2hs, before talking about unlimited time.

So, there's more things to consider than just implementing a toggle for unlimited time.

Of course, if we were to get these changes, yes I'm all for more time. I can think of extended scenarios which would last 3 or maybe even 4 hours instead of 2, but I feel that there ought to be some limit, and without the above changes, even an extended time limit of let's say 3 hours would become pointless, anyway.

Along these lines, as an alternative of extending the time limit, it would be a good idea IMHO to reintroduce the old "operations" from the CMx1 engine. (For those who didn't play CMx1, that's 'campaigns' on a single large map with pauses in between individual engagements during which unit would get resupplied or reinforced).

For CMSF that's probably out of question, but we could make use of the current campaign mechanism. What we would need, though, is to have terrain damage carried over from one battle into the next when playing on as single map as a start.