Amazing find for scenario makers!

[Cpl Steiner]

Hi everyone,

I've just made an amazing discovery using Google Earth that has really fantastic implications for scenario makers. Forgive my excitement if this is old news to you.

First of all, I downloaded a load of Russian military topographical maps of Syria from Mapstor.com. I'd post the link but I think it's a forum infringement. The map pack has about 158 really detailed maps of Syria ranging from 1:500 000 to 1:50 000 scale and only costs $12.

Next, looking at the maps, the coordinate of the corners of the map are printed on each map. So, for instance, the map showing the port of Tartus is North 35, South 34 40, West 35 30 and East 36. Forgive my notation but it's in degrees and minutes (00 minute assumed if not shown). The notation is important as you can type it into Google Earth just as I've written it above (leaving off the compass point descriptions) and it will be accepted.

Now, in Google Earth, choose "Add Image Overlay". This prompts you to browse to an image file, so choose one of the maps you downloaded. Now click on the "Location" tab and enter the coordinates for the map, as noted above. Click OK and the map is overlayed over Google Earth with the correct coodinates and dimensions. The process takes literally seconds and then you can move on to the next map. In this way you could paper the whole of Syria with all 158 topo maps if you wanted to - although it would probably take you a couple of days work.

Here's a quick screenshot of the Syrian coastline with overlays.

The maps are not a perfect fit but they are very close and easily sufficient for the purposes of doing CM:SF scenarios. I plan to use this technique to build up an Operational level map of Syria.

I hope some of you give this a go as for $12 and a free download of Google Earth it's a really great resource IMHO.

[ChrisND]

First of all, I downloaded a load of Russian military topographical maps of Syria from Mapstor.com. I'd post the link but I think it's a forum infringement. The map pack has about 158 really detailed maps of Syria ranging from 1:500 000 to 1:50 000 scale and only costs $12.

I don't think so. When I first posted about this site Moon told me to add it to the sources. Or something.

I use these maps for my scenarios. The include contour lines and the works. Exceptionally useful.

[Cpl Steiner]

I use these maps for my scenarios. The include contour lines and the works. Exceptionally useful.

If you haven't tried using them as GE overlays, I think you will be pleased with the results. Changing elevation exageration to 1.5 or 2 and tilting the camera angle slightly really shows off those contour lines. The corner coordinates for the maps position them surprisingly accurately in GE and take only seconds to key in.

I noticed there are maps for Afghanistan and a whole host of other countries too. I may try my hand at a Helmand Province scenario using these maps and GE when the Brits module comes out.

[Cpl Steiner]

Wow, I just noticed I was doing something wrong and have corrected it. The coordinates shown on the maps don't include the map border, which is why my overlays were slightly off and had white borders.

To get around this I've just tried trimming the borders off two maps and reimporting into GE with the exact same coordinates as before and I get much better results.

See how much better these two topo maps match the coastline now they've been trimmed. Bear in mind, I haven't manually aligned them with the coastline, I've just keyed in the coordinates shown on corners of the original untrimmed maps - which takes seconds to do. If you had to line them up manually it would take ages and likely be inaccurate anyway.

It's a bit more work but worth it in the long run. Just remember to save the original copy as once you've cut the borders off you'll need to refer to the original to get the coordinates.

[SgtMuhammed]

Wow, that kicks total ass.

[Cpl Steiner]

Here's another totally kick-ass discovery! All the maps can be downloaded absolutely for free from the following website:

poehali.org

Now you really have no excuse not to try this out. I just downloaded a map showing part of Afghanistan at 1:100000 scale, cropped it and had it overlayed in GE within 5 or 10 minutes. The fit was extremely good.

[kipanderson]

Cpl Steiner….

Yup great combination… great find…

I had the topographical maps… and play with Google Earth for scenarios but never would have figured you can put the two together.. Great discovery…

Fine piece of R&D…

All the best,

Kip.

[Cpl Steiner]

Thanks Kip,

After a bit more research it would also appear that these maps are free for anyone to use for whatever reason, commercial or otherwise, because the Soviet Union didn't sign the Berne Convention on Copyright at the time the maps were made (late '50s). As far as I can tell that means we can all paste them in briefings without fear of prosecution!

[dan/california]

This is officially to cool!

[Cpl Steiner]

Just thought I'd bump this thread as I used the Russian Topographical Maps free download site again today and they seem to have improved the interface, making it even easier to find what you want and download it - all for free.

Russian Topographical Maps Downloads

Some of the newer members of the forum may not be aware of this great resource, so that's another good reason to bump it.

[zwobot]

This may sound dumb but I'm asking anyway:

How can this be useful to scenario designers?

Wouldn't it be more useful if the scenario or map editor had an option to load an image overlay (like it is possible in the map editor for Highway to the Reich for example)?

I mean you still have to alt-tab all the time between the map editor and the google earth in order to make your map, don't you?

[hcrof]

Personally, I find using google earth without the maps most usefull. The maps on poehali (sp?) are very low resolution. I make a 150m grid using the 'draw lines' function then copy the height data already in GE onto where th lines intersect. Any funny heights and corrections are made next. Finally I add all the roads from the GE image and then everything else.

Its resonably accurate and gives a great 'feel' for the terrain but quite slow and my Alt-Tab buttons are pretty much destroyed . I havn't released anything in a while but that is only because I am mapping an 10x11km area of the Syrian countryside right now!

The only problem is that CMSF doesn't cope with big maps well. Several of my maps are 4x4km and the game crashes every time I load them. :mad: My only hope is that the Brits module will fix that otherwise I will have lost months worth of work.

There is another map site which does high resolution images of some of Syria but at $90 a map I am going to hold off that one for now!

[MikeyD]

About 4x4 maps. BFC said from the start the game engne has 'wiggle-room' designed-in for when PC capabilities eventually catch up. 4x4 maps may be too much for your current processor but by the time CM:Eastern Front gets released super-duper chips may be on the market that can utilize the game engine's full capability. And they won't have to rework the game engine to expand their capabilities, they'll just start using them.

[hcrof]

So its a hardware issue? I had the impression that CMSF didn't handle big maps well. I'd hate to upgrade my computer for nothing.

[afreu]

Why would you want a 4x4 map anyway? To utilize it fully you'd need several battalions. As it is, with CM:SF's interface and gameplay it's already quite a challenge to coordinate anything more than two or three companies.

IMHO the size of CM:SF scenarios is clearly limited by the nature of its gameplay.

[MikeyD]

My own maps are slowly getting bigger and bigger. I've been building 2x2km maps lately. Good for tanks trading shots or enjoying the spectacle of missile flights the length of the map. But they're hell if you have to walk your infantry from point A to point B.

[General_solomon]

Why would you want a 4x4 map anyway? To utilize it fully you'd need several battalions. As it is, with CM:SF's interface and gameplay it's already quite a challenge to coordinate anything more than two or three companies.

IMHO the size of CM:SF scenarios is clearly limited by the nature of its gameplay.

the only way you can really utilized bigger maps is when BFC allows for long game times. currently, the most you can go is 2 hours and 15 minutes. I just they allow the scenario designers the option for longer battles. personally, i would love this feature. I like to take nice and slow when fight my battles. I hate rushing. I like to bring home all my soldiers and this can only happen when you take it slow and cover all he bases.

that's why i change the battle times to max when i play user created scenarios, no offense to the designers.

[hcrof]

afreu - I want to be able to replicate maneuvre warfare - soviet style to do that you need some pretty big maps even though total forces per map would only be a reinforced motor rifle battalion for the attacker.

Besides, when an AT-3 sagger has a range of 3000m it is doing the weapon an injustice by using small maps!

[kevinkins]

"Maneuvre Warfare" would require a at least a few reinforced motor rifle battalions I think.

[hcrof]

And that is why I am mapping out a 10x11km area of Syrian countryside!

[Combatintman]

I have no problems with bigger maps - apart from creating them that is! They take a long time to load but if you keep your flavour objects to a minimum and if its not an urban map there should be no problems. The more I get into the editor the more I find that the best way to do things is to make sure you capture the flavour of the terrain rather than follow it religiously otherwise your alt and tab keys do take a hammering. I now find I can work quite quickly off a 1:100,000 scale map. The method I use is to create the 1km grid square by using the gravel tile and then just plonk features down in relation to that. Everybody has their preferences but I'm now moving to the view that the first thing you should sort out are the contours - followed by the road net. Once you've got those squared away everything else fits into place reasonably easily so long as you don't slavishly follow the original format. I've got 3 maps which hopefully will see the light of day soon which I'm pretty pleased with in terms of their resemblance to the real thing.

[JonS]

The method I use is to create the 1km grid square by using the gravel tile and then just plonk features down in relation to that. Everybody has their preferences but I'm now moving to the view that the first thing you should sort out are the contours - followed by the road net. Once you've got those squared away everything else fits into place reasonably easily so long as you don't slavishly follow the original format.

Great minds think alike / fools never differ.

Edit: Although I tend to put markers every 250m on the x and y axes, differentiating between those at 1000m steps, 500m steps, and 250m steps. Otherwise I tend to get features skudged up into one corner or another.