Are Hexes A Good Idea

[Battleboy]

With the game in the format now you have an ability to attack form eight possible points, with hexes it would only be six cutting down two possible points of attack. Some have already suggested a switch move for a better attack. I would like to see something like a top down version of this instead of the angled view. For some this game needs a little adjusting for others it needs a lot more, I would also like to see a bigger map and additional time added to the play maybe open ended Axis or Allies take all.

[Kuniworth]

With the game in the format now you have an ability to attack form eight possible points, with hexes it would only be six cutting down two possible points of attack. Some have already suggested a switch move for a better attack. I would like to see something like a top down version of this instead of the angled view. For some this game needs a little adjusting for others it needs a lot more, I would also like to see a bigger map and additional time added to the play maybe open ended Axis or Allies take all.

Hexes are the best, tiles make defence more difficult and combat more of a slugfest than holding a line.

[jon_j_rambo]

Hexes make for better playability & more importantly...SANITY for visibility reasons when trying to play wargames on a laptop.

[Kuniworth]

Only one using tiles are the SC2-series. Lets go back to hexes.

[jon_j_rambo]

Agreed, no brainer.

[Battleboy]

I have to disagree with the only one using tiles (squares) anybody play Chess? Ok I grew up playing war games hexes, area, squares, or with minis no board. In this game you also don't have any facing and don't tell me the size of the units.

[jon_j_rambo]

I have to disagree with the only one using tiles (squares) anybody play Chess? Ok I grew up playing war games hexes, area, squares, or with minis no board. In this game you also don't have any facing and don't tell me the size of the units.

I'm sure you grew up playing Shutes & Ladders too, would you like to add them? Get real, the tiles, squares, whatever flat out suc_k.

Playing on a laptop, you can't get any feel for the board. Air movement is a joke, you can't even hand count the distances.

[Kuniworth]

Battleboy seem kind of weird you want tiles and chutes & ladders. The suggestion sounds kinda non-wargaming to say the least. Playing chess you only got two pieces of 16 that moves in all 8 direction, here everyone does.

get serious, both me and Rambo been around here since 2002 because we love this game. But we want the series to remember what made it so brilliant eg the simple design and one of the best head to head strategy games of all time. YOu should haven been around in 2002-2003, what a riot and first class community this was.

Now other companies are making a big buck selling that idea over and over again. Imagine SC1 with the great benefits of PDE(editor, decision events etc) - what a winner.

Hubert made a terrific work with the sc2-series, I even had the chance to develop a scenario for WaW.

But why not go back to basics as so many people like. Or why not make an expansion pack for SC1 at least, with editors and stuff so those who like it at least stay around.

[Bill101]

Battleboy seem kind of weird you want tiles and chutes & ladders. The suggestion sounds kinda non-wargaming to say the least. Playing chess you only got two pieces of 16 that moves in all 8 direction, here everyone does.

get serious, both me and Rambo been around here since 2002 because we love this game. But we want the series to remember what made it so brilliant eg the simple design and one of the best head to head strategy games of all time. YOu should haven been around in 2002-2003, what a riot and first class community this was.

Now other companies are making a big buck selling that idea over and over again. Imagine SC1 with the great benefits of PDE(editor, decision events etc) - what a winner.

Hubert made a terrific work with the sc2-series, I even had the chance to develop a scenario for WaW.

But why not go back to basics as so many people like. Or why not make an expansion pack for SC1 at least, with editors and stuff so those who like it at least stay around.

This might make me a heretic Kuni, but I also like the tiles and before you say anything, I've been wargaming for what feels like thousands of years...

There are many other factors which determine whether or not something works, and the question of tiles or hexes is certainly not the most important factor. You've really said as much above: it wasn't the hexes alone that made SC1 so addictive, we'd all have been hooked whatever it had used!

[justanotherwargamer1]

Just to be fair.

There are no shortage of people that love the game "under the hood" that is Gary Grigsby's World at War. I bought the first release, and I bought the rebirth known as A World Divided.

But while the game under the hood might be grand, the game on the monitor is abominable.

The icons look like his grand daughter drew them. They were unacceptable in both releases.

They were lousy choices plan and simple.

What was good though, is they took the design gaffes of GGWAW and turfed them and gave us GGWAW AWD. They cut some slack for the people that paid out for the first, and gave them a great discount for the second. And I also don't mean a lousy 5 bucks off.

As I have said over in the SC1 forum, I have no intention of playing SC2 no matter how patched and expanded it becomes.

I just wish Hubert had given us an improved SC1, not this visual eye sore SC2 that some of you seem to think is an improvement. It isn't.

But as I said, to be fair, it's not like SC2 is the only game well thought of, with visual aspects that suck. And elements that don't cut it that everyone seems willing to ignore.

And I have the new Road to Victory from Matrix Games.

And I have to admit, I'm getting bored waiting for the fan love to die down.

Road to War has divisional scale, 190 turns of grand strategy goodness, but the game's idea of a tutorial is a crock. It's not a tutorial, tutorials actually teach.

And the interface, my god, I have yet to see a less intuitive interface in all my years of gaming. It's virtually the exact opposite of the SC1 interface.

So there you have it. Tiles blow chunks, and the SC2 map is so lousy looking as to be an eye strain. I want my hexes back. I'm not negotiating on this one. If SC3 has tiles, it's no sale.

[Battleboy]

You guys have only been around since 2002 that makes you 6 years old??? OK I started computer games on a C-64 first game was Gettysburg by SSI so I have played some games. Love the Talonsoft games. Will still play SC1 and I hate RT games. Never played S & L but did play Monolopy and Battleship heck I even like RISK and lets not go there.

[SeaMonkey]

This is so passe'. Are hexes a good idea, sure they are. So are tiles, squares, grids, or whatever you want to base a geographical area on.

Simply, they are just reference points, useful for orientation, but to maneuver around a map, inconsequential. They don't simulate real life, just a basis for gameplaying in which we make many compromises vs reality.

The "best", IMO, is the Airborne Assault series from Panther.

Dave, I mean Arjuna, and the gang are "cutting edge".

[justanotherwargamer1]

This is so passe'. Are hexes a good idea, sure they are. So are tiles, squares, grids, or whatever you want to base a geographical area on.

Simply, they are just reference points, useful for orientation, but to maneuver around a map, inconsequential. They don't simulate real life, just a basis for gameplaying in which we make many compromises vs reality.

The "best", IMO, is the Airborne Assault series from Panther.

Dave, I mean Arjuna, and the gang are "cutting edge".

There is always a number 1 in any list. Tiles isn't it.

But regarding Panther Games, no argument there. Only game in real time mode where command is actually realistic, simulates the stupidity of changing your mind too often and gives an interface a wargamer won't have a problem with.

I don't think real time is suited to the decision requirements of grand strategy though. Which is why when I hear people claiming the virtues of real time grand strategy titles, I tend to treat them the same way when listening to idiots.

I just want hexes, because in my view, hexes outrank tiles on the list.

Why settle for second best?

If tiles actually WERE equal to hexes, there would be more games that gave a damn about them, more board games that employed them.

[SeaMonkey]

Sorry, I need more than just hexes. And Number 1 on the list is the grid. I'll give you the adaptability of RTS to strategic scale leaves something to be desired.

So again, you want the first on the list, simultaneous movement. It would be fairly simple to adjust an RTS to a certain "runtime" to simulate the turn basis you desire. We'll see what "Battleground" has to offer later this year.

Always remember, your list doesn't equate to others' list. Everyone is different, preferences vary and so do priorities. Just because that's the way its been done for a few decades, doesn't mean there isn't something better.

Obviously something is left to be desired even with the "#1 hexes", else folks wouldn't still be experimenting, like trying to reinvent the wheel....eh.

Ever heard of electromagnetic trains,...hovercraft, etc.?

[PowerGmbH]

YES: a Hexes SC1 Editor that has full SC2 AI and all these new features would be best.

Also Really dont forget the SC1 Simplification that was so grat!

Such a SC3 would be "win"!

[Blashy]

YES: a Hexes SC1 Editor that has full SC2 AI and all these new features would be best.

Also Really dont forget the SC1 Simplification that was so grat!

Such a SC3 would be "win"!

If you want simplificiation simply play the A3R mod created by pzgndr. And a great feature of that mod is the bigger ocean and Russia.

IMHO the editor can cover all the needs of the players outside of having hexes.

[Sombra]

After a few years of exp now with the squares...I say give me back the hexes.

By the way... Terif and Dragonheart are still active in the "Panzerliga" they are mostly playing a "Navy" simulator. Terif as always dominates the online world and has calculated the game to death again ..

Lately there are some AARS regarding "Commanders at war" ...trying to revive the rage of SC1 ,the game has to many bugs in my opinion...is not balanced enough for a online league. Still it shows at least some desperate need for a good "hex, beer and bretzel strategy " game

[Blashy]

The only reason I think going back to hexes might be a good idea is simply because overall preferance seems to be that format for people who enjoy these types of wargames.

While players who do not mind tiles (like myself) do not seem to mind hexes as well.

[Retributar]

Hello Blashy!:

I readily 'Concur' with your statement!...

"

While players who do not mind tiles (like myself) do not seem to mind hexes as well."

Really!!!,...if it were at all possible!, i would like to be able to play the "same-game", with either Hexe's or Tile's...just to see how they 'function/simulate',...as far as 'realistically-replicating' WW2 on the Battlefield!.

Who can really know which system is better?, unless both system's can be compared to each other using a 'common/same' creation to work with!.

[Battleboy]

Hexes or tiles doesn't matter to me SC1, SC2 or SC3 as long as this game has the replayability that it has and it is not boged down with things that would clutter it up and slow down the play. As far as I'm concerned you can include what ever you want but I would like the ability to turn off what I don't want. I like the research the way it is I also like the option of haveing a different typ of research, sometime I like weather sometimes I don't. I like to play it here it goes Axis and Allies like sometimes (sorry) only refrence I could think off. What I'm saying if your going to improve (which for me bigger board, more time to play maybe 1950"s and be able to turn on your Allies with out haveing to be diplomatic about it) give the option to set a compleation date then. Off course you can never go wrong with more playing area.

[Bill101]

I'm perfectly happy with tiles, prefer them in fact as they look better than a map covered with hexes.

[SeaMonkey]

I have to agree with Bill here. I just made a map of North Africa and the Eastern Med all the way from Port Said to Tripoli. It occupies one fourth of the full SC2 WaW map's max editor area.

Turn off the tile grid, it's absolutely beautiful.

Sorry guys....the map is important! I have units that have 50 APs and there is no way you're going to be counting tiles, the least movement APs is 25.

If you play this game all you'll do is click on the unit and observe its possible highlighted deployment tiles.....you're not going to be counting them cause you'll have to scroll to see the end of the movement.

Definitely a play by "feel" campaign, tiles, hexes.....don't matter.

[Nupremal]

I think hexes are better because they move the units more intuitively - you get an artificial movement if moving diagonally is the same (you could try making it 1.5x moving diagonally). It is very difficult to see who is cut off - I am often thinking a unit is cut off of supply then seeing some diagonal. That is my chief issue with it. I also think people have designed the maps with too much of that north/south stretch so that the sizes/distances are too far off. I think better might be to make the seas more malleable than the land, since naval movement is much more abstracted than land movement is.

[CSS]

I love these arguements over what is and what is not! God belss Kuni for ALWAYS being able to stir up the pot!

If you will notice early in any WWII campaign cutting off was done by the more expirianced side and motor/mechanized to the newer/non motored side.

The Germans were cut off, usually on Hitlers direct standfast/festung order, he never could comprehind Strategy, let alone grand strategy.

If the medium is hexes or tiles so be it. Erich Von Manstien would have kicked ALL of your asses, (except Terif) becaused he would have played with what he has! And done very well with what he had!

Hubert has made a GREAT engine that is showing its would the trivial semantics as to whether hexes or tiles is mute!

My unhumble opinion!

[Kuniworth]

Look I know alot of you guys hang around on tiles-parties, petting eachothers backs, speaking admirable to one another "oh seamonkey I loved your marsch of 4th corps into the low countries in your AI game on normal setting"

Thing is if you are a player that like tiles over hexes there is something weird. Either you do it because

1. You think it look better then hexes. That is a stupid arguement, just turn of the grid.

2. You are tiles fetichist

3. You are 7-years old and think this is a civ game and not a wargame.