sebastian Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Originally posted by Bradley: Can you edit game play and just have 2 supporting vehicles only?? I don't want less vehicles, I want more infantry. At least a company, that is at least 100 men, grouped and controlled as squads and teams, and not as a uniform mass. That was the concept, which made CC a classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 It's probably best to look at this video just as a taste for the look and feel of the game, not to judge it wholesale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 Naturally, if I cut armor i want to have points to purchase additional inf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahoshua Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 People who want to complain about every little detail and strive for nothing short of absolute perfection: STOP!! You'll end up being dissatisfied with EVERY SINGLE GAME you come across and will be popping something like 100 pills a day. Constructive criticism is uselful. Not outright judgement or comparison. From what I can see, this may still be the Beta-stage of programming. So it's most a looky/feely show of what will be in the game. It wil get better. Either with expansions, mods or just plain getting used to it. It's better than the Atari version of Axis and Allies just from looking at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebastian Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Originally posted by Yahoshua: You'll end up being dissatisfied with EVERY SINGLE GAME you come across and will be popping something like 100 pills a day.No, I will end up wasting less time on playing games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 For many of us, this will be the first time that we have actually had chance to see the game running. Looking at static screenshots can only show you what the game will look like, so discussing first impressions of what we've seen, good or bad, is quite fair and to be expected i think. If that video is showing an older build of the game, then someone who knows should point it out. Personally i like most of what i've seen, and can't wait for the demo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 CC? do you mean close combat? if so i love that series especially ABTF! I like the look of TOW so far, but as others have said i would like to see more infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahoshua Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I'm just tired of hearing people whine about the chinks in a chain they haven't even gotten yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Hmmm. The interface is definitely "next generation" in terms of the CC/EYSA "universe". I really like how the formation commands for the infantry worked! What I was unhappy to see was a soldier standing in the open like 2 meters away from a trench. This behavior brings back some negative memories from other games. Also, the gameflow felt somewhat arcadish. Wasn't the first trenchline cleared way too quickly? In CMBB I yesterday had a German platoon in a trench with over 100 kills between them ... Leading with tanks is also something that I'd rather not see in a demo video. Best regards, Thomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Thomm: I'll be honest.. fellas, it was looking great. But.. I could've used a little more shockwaves. So.. let's take it again.. and, Megakill. Megakill: Yeah? Thomm: Really explore the battlefield space this time. I mean, really ... explore the space. I like what I'm seeing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgars Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Originally posted by sebastian: Permanent drag-selecting of individual soilders, instead of unit-level-selection like in CC (I guess you don't need squads at all, for those few guys running around). I think this is not entirely correct. I noticed multiple times, especially in French mission, that clicking on one icon (i suppose unit commander) whole squad was selected instantly. Apart from that, i have a strange feeling looking at those guns in the open. One thing that years and years of CM playing has taught me, is always to use cover. Because gun in the open could be killed by single machinge-gun burst. Now here, in the British mission gun sits in the open, in hostile environment, without any cover, fires some shells, then gets moved to a different location (a big no-no in CM during the battle if enemy has a LOS), then disembarks and fires again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stone75 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Just watched the video, im sure someone posted before that this game would not be a click fest. Sure did look hectic to me. I know we can pause and give orders but that just drops the imersion. I really hope this games pace is not frantic as the german mission looked all the time or it will be pretty, but just another RTS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus86 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 one thing I don't like, is the way soldiers health is displayed. Morale seems to drop really fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traemyn Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Just watched the video, im sure someone posted before that this game would not be a click fest. Sure did look hectic to me. I know we can pause and give orders but that just drops the imersion. I really hope this games pace is not frantic as the german mission looked all the time or it will be pretty, but just another RTS! well I think you are maybe confusing the statement they made that its not a "click-fest". After watching this video I believe they mean that you can't JUST be a speed-demon-micro'r and expect to win battles with your mouse/twitch speed. You have to know the game very well and use a lot of tactics to be successful. If you have both speed skills AND a great understanding of the game then you probably are better than someone who doesn't have both. It doesn't make a lot of sense that speed doesn't equal 'better' in a real-time game to a certain degree. But I suspect there is a ceiling of speed skill that once you hit a certain point you don't continue to benefit much from getting faster b/c the gameplay is only a certain speed (which can be modded probably, if you want it slower). So hopefully this ceiling is low enough to suit everyones gameplay style while still rewarding the micro-masters some for being able to do what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHBERY76 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 **** the moaners,this game is a must buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDork Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Perhaps a bit crudely put but I agree. Of course the demo could change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megakill Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Originally posted by traemyn: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Just watched the video, im sure someone posted before that this game would not be a click fest. Sure did look hectic to me. I know we can pause and give orders but that just drops the imersion. I really hope this games pace is not frantic as the german mission looked all the time or it will be pretty, but just another RTS! well I think you are maybe confusing the statement they made that its not a "click-fest". After watching this video I believe they mean that you can't JUST be a speed-demon-micro'r and expect to win battles with your mouse/twitch speed. You have to know the game very well and use a lot of tactics to be successful. If you have both speed skills AND a great understanding of the game then you probably are better than someone who doesn't have both. It doesn't make a lot of sense that speed doesn't equal 'better' in a real-time game to a certain degree. But I suspect there is a ceiling of speed skill that once you hit a certain point you don't continue to benefit much from getting faster b/c the gameplay is only a certain speed (which can be modded probably, if you want it slower). So hopefully this ceiling is low enough to suit everyones gameplay style while still rewarding the micro-masters some for being able to do what they do. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traemyn Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Sorry, but this is a completely wrong opinion. The game speed is quite similar to Close Combat serious. PLUS! You can pause at any time, give out orders and then unpause. Well that is the impression the video you released gave. The player in the vid is constantly roaming back and forth and the map, giving units new orders, checking this and that, checking units damage, checking their morale, etc. That doesn't take speed? If I do it faster than someone else that doesn't give me an advantage (in MP, or 'score-wise' in SP) EDIT:I guess the pause thing does alleviate really any needed speed on the part of the player. But you never answered my question in my other MP question thread, is Pause function in MP? If I am completely wrong than that video is a poor example of the gameplay. I notice that the speed of the game is NOT like most other RTS's, im just saying that to a certain extent (at least what is presented in the video) speed will play a role. How can you deny this? [ August 30, 2006, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: traemyn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuuSaR Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 In this video forces were just rushed flank speed ahead, without any tactics or planning. But it looked like it was player's choise, nothing was forcing him to do it so stupidly. So I'm not worried over this "chaos" at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Originally posted by traemyn: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Sorry, but this is a completely wrong opinion. The game speed is quite similar to Close Combat serious. PLUS! You can pause at any time, give out orders and then unpause. Well that is the impression the video you released gave. The player in the vid is constantly roaming back and forth and the map, giving units new orders, checking this and that, checking units damage, checking their morale, etc. That doesn't take speed?</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stone75 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I merely stated that i hope it wont be a frantic clickfest, i never said it was, i never said thats how the finished game will play, only that it looked pretty frantic in the video. To get a response which contains expletives is appauling and a sign that the speaker really had nothing constructive to add at all. If a persons opinion is not wanted, then there would not be a forum. Constructive criticism often aids towards a better end product after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahoshua Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Traemyn, if you listen to the interpreter, you can hear EVRYTHING that is going on with the game. For example, the german tanks surging ahead of the infantry was a mistake. A player mistake, but it was a istake that the PLAYER made, not the gaming engine. Nevertheless, it still impressed me that even though the Polish soldiers clearly had the advantage in the situation, their fear got the best of them and they fought poorly. Whereas the trained German soldier was getting completely chewed up for not using cover and unnecessarily exposing themselves to fire. I thought this little scene from the video (albeit unintentional) was excellently demonstrated. It shows me that this game requires tactics, level-headed reactions, and most of all: Experienced troopers who would not run home to mommy in order to get the job done. And I'd like to point out that the Pause-give orders- unpause is far closer to real life since we can't move our fingers as nearly fast as our mouth. And we can shout out multiple orders faster than type/click them to the user console. As for speed: There is a world of difference between Starcraft and Ground Control (I know this is out of the blue but bear with me). In Starcraft, the fastest micromanager and resource manager wins. In Ground Control, he who kills the most units without losing their own (and therefore can call in reinforcements) wins. The former depends on resource management and Micromanaging, victory is dependent on speed. The Latter depends entirely on tactical skill and strategic movements to win, victory in this arena is dependent on leadership and tactical combat skills to attain victory. And this sort of game can move only at the pace in which the player attacks the enemy to accrue Acquisition Points. ToW would be more like the latter in the sense that Micromanaging is not so much of a factor as are the skills of Tactical Combat and Leadership. The defining difference is that reinforcements are scripted in strength (from what I can see), and appear along a pre-determined time-table. No little point system to fiddle with, just the environment, the morale of your men, the current capabilities and status of your equipment, and the enemy. And I'm getting all this just from watching the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traemyn Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 SP: ok well I admit I was wrong about the speed thing for singleplayer, because of the ability to pause. And I do understand the difference between Starcraft gameplay and Ground Control. You still cannot convince me though that there is NO ADVANTAGE to having a certain amount of SPEED to your micro'ing, tactical placement, unit buying, etc in Ground Control. Speed is still required for these things to be very good at the game (or at least better than the average person). MP: Now what I really want answered is if multiplayer in ToW includes the pause function. If it doesn't, I believe my observations and opinions about speed (for MP) stand. Im really just arguing against someone assuming that they will be on even grounds with a person in MP (if no pause) if they both have equal tactical skills but one is slower at things. I have played too many games and know that speed is always important in real-time. I know its a world of difference between games that reward speed and games like this. But speed is still a variable in the equation and nothing I have seen so far shows me otherwise, unless they make it turn-based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 What if you gave each player a limited number of "pauses" so as to not abuse it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traemyn Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Originally posted by gunnersman: What if you gave each player a limited number of "pauses" so as to not abuse it? that or a limited amount of time, like a pause time pool. Mega, no official comments on MP with/without pause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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