Bradley Dick Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 I read in another thread about you being in Thunder Squadron. Did you get to come up to Tal Afar for the big party we threw the insurgents ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Originally posted by Bradley Dick: You get some strange looks from the everyday person if you answer the "What do you do for a living?" question with "I'm a mercenary". I think that's a side effect of too many cheesy action movies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrykerPSG Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Originally posted by Bradley Dick: I read in another thread about you being in Thunder Squadron. Did you get to come up to Tal Afar for the big party we threw the insurgents ? We threw a big party for our insurgents in Tal Afar too back in 04, what a hoot! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juergen2SSDR Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 I agree with Bradley Dick on the "PSC" issue. My boyfriend feels the same way as he was over there for some time as a "PSC" I think if the Military forces were up to cold war levels we would not be having such a personell problem overseas. V and J 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Dick Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Did your boyfriend find the job a$ $ati$fying a$ I probably did ? I found that it wa$ a very intere$ting way to $pend a year. When I got back, I $ure wa$ glad I went over$ea$ a$ a civillian. [ August 27, 2007, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Bradley Dick ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 StrykerPSG made a good point that most people gloss over: Cross country mobility is spectacular as well. The Hydrop suspension automatically compensates for harsher terrain. We were able to patrol the Syrian border, off road, covering a frontal area of about 300km each day. There were times, while negotiating some more difficult wadis, but for the most part, we could cover our border section and still pause at multiple points, providing overwatch and security. There is a big difference between cross country mobility for the vehicle and for the people riding in it. I've heard more than a few M113, Bradley, and AAFV dismounts complain about how bad the ride is over open terrain. Puking, bruising, bad air quality, etc. are just some of the things I've heard. You do not hear about these things from the guys riding in back of Strykers, even offroad (well, within limits of course!). This is something the armchair warriors almost always neglect when they are comparing one to the other, and when presented they tend to be dismissive of the impact it has on the guys that have to ride around day after day. Fatigue is not a combat multiplier! One thing we must keep in mind is that the Stryker is best in arid (dry, open) terrain and urban areas. Therefore, it is operating in its peak environment in Iraq. Stryker mobility in a jungle, temperate forest, very wet fields, etc. would be lower than what is experienced in Iraq vs. a tracked vehicle. Once again emphasizing that there is no such thing as a perfect vehicle for all circumstances and needs. It's all about tradeoffs. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juergen2SSDR Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Yes he did... We bought a house, and two new cars. And he took me out shopping. However, I was glad he was home. I wish everyone there both Military and Contractors a safe tour, and to come home safely. Im not naieve and understand the great risks there for both, War is hell, but sometimes a necessity to have freedoms like the US. Im sure everyone both Religious or not would rather do what they want then be opressed! sorry for the rant... just finnishing my nails 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juergen2SSDR Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Ahh which brings up a good point Mr. Battlefront Admin. how would the Stryker fair in say Korea or China, or even Eastern Europe in Wet or monsoon seasons. V 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Dick Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Riding in the back of a Bradley in the desert, especially open desert with the heat, sucks. It's loud, it's unbeleivably hotter, no air circulates, it's dark, it's full of dust, anything not bolted or strapped down becomes a projectile, it vibrates loudly during the best ride, it shakes fillings loose and causes concussions in the worst rides, and the ramp always seems to drop right as you are getting a good nap. The Stryker looks like a luxury car in the pictures of its interior. Given all that. I'm still a fan of the Bradley. For absolutely no good reason. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelmia Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 From reading the Russian General Staff report on Afghanistan I learned that the BTR was considered superior to the BMP. It was a lot faster and carried more men, and was easier to maintain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrykerPSG Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Originally posted by VeronicaJGD: Ahh which brings up a good point Mr. Battlefront Admin. how would the Stryker fair in say Korea or China, or even Eastern Europe in Wet or monsoon seasons. V I think the answer to the overall question is how would any vehicle fair in those conditions? Remember, narrow tracked vehicles lack the same mobility in the same conditions as a wheeled vehicle. WWII and Korea, Shermans were fitted with a wider track to negotiate snow and mud. Likewise, the driver of Strykers just deflates their tires to sand mode and increase the overall ground pressure footprint. It's not a perfect system, but it only takes getting stuck once in either tracked or wheeled vehicle to force either the TC or driver to start becoming more situationally aware of better routes. Also, with a lighter chassis weight, the wheeled vehicle would fair better on the less then stellar paved road and bridges. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 It's very true about the level of vibration - it's inherent in all tracked vehicles and is called track patter. Basically, as each track link hits the ground, it sends a shock through the whole vehicle and since this repeated many times a second is induces a vibration. The magnitude of this is related to vehicle speed (not quite proportional but nearly) so the faster you go the worse it gets. The track patter vibration is worse than the background random events on most vehicles (i.e bumps, potholes etc. in the road). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinetree Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Originally posted by Battlefront.com I've heard more than a few M113, Bradley, and AAFV dismounts complain about how bad the ride is over open terrain. Puking, bruising, bad air quality, etc. are just some of the things I've heard. Oh god yes , wearing a helmet in a 113 was mandatory, one decent bump and you went flying into the ceiling, then when you came down,if you were up front,you'd scrape your shins on the TC's foot platform.. [ August 27, 2007, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: Pinetree ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSY Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: There is a big difference between cross country mobility for the vehicle and for the people riding in it. I've heard more than a few M113, Bradley, and AAFV dismounts complain about how bad the ride is over open terrain. Puking, bruising, bad air quality, etc. are just some of the things I've heard. You do not hear about these things from the guys riding in back of Strykers, even offroadRandom question from a civilian, what about tankers -- do they experience the same puking, bruising, etc? Also Bradley Dick mentioned it was dark in the back of a Bradley. I had an opportunity to clamber around inside some tanks at the Military Vehicle Technology Foundation, and was surprised at how dark it seemed inside of them. I assume if nothing else, modern tanks are lite up inside by their electronics equipment. Did WW2 tanks have any kind of internal lighting system. Seems like it would be closed to pitch dark in there when buttoned up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tc237 Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 PSY, Only for the gunner really, because he can't see outside, he can't brace himself or "roll" with the bumps. He can be badly injured if he is looking through the sight when the vehicle hits a bump. The TC/Loader can get hurt if the tank stops suddenly, they'll crack a rib on the hatch edge. A beat up gunner is the quickest way to a beat up driver To add a bit to flamingknives, An M1 can get smoother the faster it goes especially on roads or smooth ground. But for all vehicles it depends on the terrain, even what wargames would classify as clear/flat terrain can have enough ruts and bumps to make it a terrible experience if the vehicle is moving to fast. Sometimes it is just too unsafe, even in combat, to go even 20mph cross country. A lot of misconceptions are based on books, specs, stats, etc.. when real world results aren't taken into account. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 And yet I still managed to sleep in the back of a moving M1064... A practiced skill, that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 VeronicaJGD, StrykerPSG is a far better source of info than I am. I just play with sims, he has the real deal to play with His points about adverse conditions applying to narrow tracked vehicles almost as much as wheeled is pretty sound. One condition, though, I would rather have a tracked vehicle than a wheeled one... narrow wooded tracks. From personaly (though admittedly limited) experience it is pretty hard to get turned around in the woods with a turning radius of a wheeled vehicle. How much of a difference does this make? Probably not much, so I guess it's hardly worth mentioning. Oh, and crews have a LOT better chance of recovering a stuck in the mud Stryker than a stuck Bradely or Abrams IMHO. Strykers are lighter and therefore easier to pull out. Plus, when the vehicle does get out you don't have to spend time cleaning the suspension or risk throwing a track (if you haven't thrown one already). tc237, I've heard more than one tanker say things like that they'd rather have a great driver and a bad gunner than a bad driver and a great gunner I was fortunate enough to use the Abrams driving pod at Ft. Knox and that was enough for me to know how nasty it can be. No, I had no Abrams driving experience but I do own a couple of tracked vehicles and let me tell you... I still probably would have had a gunner beat me senseless for the way I drove! Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Dick Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 I dunno, I've never seen a tracked vehicle get stuck in the mud unless they did one of two things: Slowed down too much, or tried to turn too sharply. Slowing down too much can just get you plain stuck. Turning too sharply can get you stuck OR throw track. I have seen people get a tracked vehicle stuck while trying to drive through a marsh though. Couldn't even get the 88 out there to snatch it. We had to drag the 88's tow cable out to the track, by hand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tc237 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 The thing about driving the Abrams is the very, very touchy brakes. It takes some practice to get used to slowy applying brake pressure. Too much and the brakes will literally lock and all 70 tons will stop dead, the nose pitches down and the rear bucks up like a wild bull. It don't skid like a car Once you get used to the brakes it's a smooth ride with all the power you could ever ask for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Bradley Dick, A good driver doesn't get stuck, wheels or tracks. In theory I've got a picture somewhere of an Abrams that looks like a submarine. It's in the middle of a green field and pretty much only the turret is above ground level. This was sent to me by one of the higher ups that had to go down and deal with it. But I've not been able to find that picture for years now tc237, Yup, it was the brakes that gave me such a problem. I felt like I was going to go ass over handlebars the first time I hit the brakes. Blasted training pod and its G-force capabilities Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrrprecon Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Originally posted by Bradley Dick: I read in another thread about you being in Thunder Squadron. Did you get to come up to Tal Afar for the big party we threw the insurgents ? No man i was with Thunder Squadron, South of Baghdad at FOB Falcon, right on ASR Jackson N of MSR Tampa. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrrprecon Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Originally posted by Bradley Dick: Riding in the back of a Bradley in the desert, especially open desert with the heat, sucks. It's loud, it's unbeleivably hotter, no air circulates, it's dark, it's full of dust, anything not bolted or strapped down becomes a projectile, it vibrates loudly during the best ride, it shakes fillings loose and causes concussions in the worst rides, and the ramp always seems to drop right as you are getting a good nap. The Stryker looks like a luxury car in the pictures of its interior. Given all that. I'm still a fan of the Bradley. For absolutely no good reason. OMG dont get me started about Bradleys...talk about like being in a grinder! And yes when i got done riding around in the back when i got out i basically took two steps and i fell down liek a drunken old man. I got to drive one too, talk about waiting when you hit the gas.....3-6 sec delay on movement...but anyway yeah Bradleys are a real treat to ride in... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 thelmia, While I take your point, be sure to read Suvorov's THE LIBERATORS for his account of the realities of life in a unit fairly well equipped with BTR-60PKs circa 1967. The shoehorning he describes will blow your mind. Have been in a static, doors open BMP-1. Not fun at all when 5'11"! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisbech_lad Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Aren't the French moving to wheeled APC too? Wheels vs tracks, I can see for a APC wheels make more sense, for an IFV probably tracks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Dick Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Originally posted by lrrprecon: ]No man i was with Thunder Squadron, South of Baghdad at FOB Falcon, right on ASR Jackson N of MSR Tampa. Oh, right on. I thought some of your cav troopers got detached to come up to Tal Afar. I could've been wrong though, or the guys that told me that could've been full of it. I did MSR Tampa my entire first tour, and 3 months of the second one. That place is like a second home. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.