Haters, please read.

[Sixxkiller]

I might get into trouble with Steve and company for saying this, but you guys need to step back and roll with the punches.

Ok so i am on a temporary deployment and I have missed so much of what you guys have been saying and the problems you guys have with the game. So I havent got to read much of what has been going on since the release, but you guys are acting like BFC has just released the worst game to ever hit the PC.

But you guys are first of all WRONg that this game is crap or that you need to wait 6 months to buy it. This game is highly playable RIGHT now, so please stop telling people who come here not to buy it. You should know better that BFC S U P P O R T S thier products. So it has a few issues, big ****ing deal. Do you think they aren't working thier asses off to fix these issues? I know for a fact they sacrifice thier lives to bring these games to you guys, and believe me they are WAY MORE GROG than you. So chill and let them fix it. It took 4 years to get this far, whats a few more months. .

It also has things that no other games can even approach in cool factor and realism. The Arty model is just spot ****ing on, especially with Matt's work on the sounds. And the editor.... ya find a better game released editor than this one. Red vs Red and Blue vs Blue gives this game awesome replayability with much more than just Syrian troops. You can make scenarios with just about any Middle East or African nation against whomever you wish. IMO, BTS should have charged a module fee for this functionality.

Another problem is that the beta testers/designers had to learn this stuff on the fly too. We are just like you guys, we want it all and we want it right now, but BFC can only give what is available in the time they have. But since WE have found a way to love this game, why the hell can't you stop whining and realize that this game may not be perfect yet, but damn sure has the potential to be on your hard drives for 10 years.

And you WEGo vs RT idiots, stop fricken complaining. You can play one or the other or you can play both. I mean you guys change your underwear, why dont you expect gaming to change too? But BTS didnt abandon you WEGO and PBEM players did they?

Oh well back to the field. Return Fire at Will.

[Pandur]

in short, i think if no one would care about the game no one would whine. thats a good thing, becouse many people show they CARE, in one way or another.

its like a person you like. if you care for what this person does or says you are easier chought in an emotional discussion with this person than with someone you think, let me be and go to hell.

i dont think there are any "haters" here. theses get baned or at least notified that they should change their style of posting. and the whining will stop as patches pop, thats just naturaly.

[Kieme(ITA)]

First you must recognize that supporting a game means to dig into the problems rather than to express compliments.

Second I'm not sure you're a gamer...

many people here are gamers who have had many years of experience with almost any kind of game out there (I play simulations since the time M1 Tank Platoon came out, my first game -just after pacman-) and so you must accept that even fierce criticism is expressed (I did for sure) about this game which is actually a great game but with some problems which cannot be accepted easily, I don't refer to little bugs etc. (even though there's a limit for bugs presence I must say this game has some sort of a "medium" bug presence, maye it's nature make those bugs more noticable) I refer to some important missing elements first of all the ability to play QB battles, which is kind of a great missing.

If you are a gamer you must consider such problems, if you are not you cannot complain about gamers doing this (with constructive comments). Another major problem is related to optimization for different systems.

Please moderate your language too, I'm not sure you can give people "idiots" or such if they "fight" over some discussion (which will be really useful for future developments like they did in the past, I'm sure).

Finally my two cents: I'd have preferred to wait 6 more months before the release to get some missing features corrected before the game got out... also considering CMSF won't hve to fight on the shelves against next blockbuster titles like "world in conflict", "Crysis", "Bioshock" and so on.... but this is me.

[ August 08, 2007, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Kieme(ITA) ]

[Michael Dorosh]

The concern about WEGO being "replaced" by RT is palpable, and to me valid. Steve has, however, given his assurances that WEGO will remain a cornerstone of the CM franchise. I don't think anybody other than alarmists are suggesting otherwise.

If BF.C ever released a Combat Mission title that did not offer WEGO, I wouldn't support it. I have no qualms about RT; it's an interesting approach and for designers/testers especially, a convenient way of playing through a game quickly. CM is big enough for both styles.

[Stirling]

I didn't pay for potential.

[dynaman200]

> This game is highly playable RIGHT now

I'm glad you think so, personally I find it hard to play a game that crashes every time I try.

(I do expect the 1.02 patch will go a long way toward fixing the crashes though)

[Lindan]

Originally posted by Stirling:

I didn't pay for potential.

I did.

[Pandur]

I did.

in fact, we all did

[Dirtweasle]

Haters = critics?

[dalem]

Sixxkiller-

What to say? You're telling people who don't like brocolli, and who expected beef stew, to shut up about the brocolli they were just served and stop wondering where the beef stew is. Pretty arrogant.

Here's something I just wrote this morning explaining my position and concern to a buddy. Maybe it'll help you a little.

"CM filled the niche of a Squad Leader type game on the PC. It did everything SL did and a hundred times more. Most importantly it was a well-written war game with a good match of scale and unit focus, and scale and unit focus are big things in game design.

From what I know of the core design changes they have eliminated, not just the ease and utility of my favorite method of play, but also the utility of the game as a detailed teaching or "what if" tool. It's like making me buy a bunch of SL counters but never allowing me to choose weird combos of them to either duplicate known weird historical combos or just try something stupid for fun.

This is a huge, and to me, mind-boggling limitation. It speaks to a deliberate change of direction for BFC away from the "war game" and towards the "computer game".

From what I've read of the LOS/scaling issues, they are unable to exactly match the level of visual representation they have chosen with the terrain scaling they have chosen. This is a huge no-no in war game design, and just plain sloppy and lazy. But since the overriding decision was 1:1, the accuracy of detail and play that BFC always boasted about is gone.

So that's two or three core design limitations and failures that Steve & the boys deliberately embraced and/or settled for. They may make more money, and more power to them and their customers for that, but until and unless they change some or all of those core decisions (and what are the odds of that, hmm?) they're not making anything in the CM series that I am interested in."

There you go, my opinion. See any "hate" in there?

-dale

[C'Rogers]

There you go, my opinion. See any "hate" in there?

Maybe the sloppy and lazy accusation

[Sirocco]

If only we could strike the words "haters" and "whiners" out of the dictionary the quality of debate online would increase tenfold.

[Kieme(ITA)]

I like dalem thoughts.

They come from a supporter and admirator of the CM series who just made his mind upon what this new CM is bringing in and what it has left to the past.

Personally I like the game in this way, so you might say I've a different position from dalem but I can perfectly understand him.

I also have many thoughts about the and tried in other posts to express these.

[Jaws]

Relax m8. Believe me… no matter what you make in the "Free" World there will be always complainers. All we vote for 1 president because he is good.. Next day we drain him through the Toilet.

This game is very good and an Eye candy. But things can improve always. Look how many years it took to improve CM 1 series.... At the end.. CMBB was even better then CMAK.

So my advice.. look at the critics and discus it with your colleges. Then improve it.

This way we will get a beautiful CM2 WW 2

[Dirtweasle]

Yea, not sure I would've used sloppy and lazy, but even so don't think they are hateful all the same.

~~~~~~~~~

Good post though dale.

[The_Capt]

Originally posted by Sirocco:

If only we could strike the words "haters" and "whiners" out of the dictionary the quality of debate online would increase tenfold.

And herein lies the nasty stone at the centre of this thing.

From what I have seen critics of the game fall into two catagories:

a. Legitimate players who are having trouble with the game itself in the form of bugs etc. Or players who honestly have an issue with the game they would like raised to the developers level.

b. People who were ripped off the teat too early and figure that they need to slag an independent wargame company as a way to leave their mark on the world. They justify the hole in their souls with the suggestion that they paid for the right to bitch (Note: download the demo and wait for a trusted review were consumer tools that escaped many of these people). At this point CMSF could balance their checkbooks, cure baldness and leave your house with a minty after-scent and they would still be on here ranting about how this game is crap. This group also includes those that don't like BFC for whatever reason and feel it is time to get some pay back for perceived wrongdoings.

The trouble with all the noise is trying to seperate the honest complaints from the less than legit ones.

So for any perspective buyer...the three R's

Risk: It is all yours to assume and mitigate before you purchase..welcome to free society, if you don't like it try something else. Try the demo, read a review from a trusted source try a magic 8-ball.

Refrain: Upon failure to observe risk, refrain from leaping onto the forum and jumping up and down all purple in the face because something isn't going your way. If you want flawless performance out of the box go get a console. Welcome to PC gaming. All those that remember reconfiguring a graphics card or making a boot disk just to get X-Com running, hands up.

Relax: Patches will come very quickly that will no doubt solve all of your issues or probably enough to make the game enjoyable to even the most jaded soul.

[wolf66]

I bought TOW tried it, did not like it, shelved it ..... finally sold it

I bought CMSF, tried it, don't like it as is, shelved it .... wait for patch to make up my mind then

Bought CMBB, tried it, loved it, still play it ....

Bought CMAK, tried it, loved it, still play it ....

If that makes me a stubborn old WEGO gamer stuck in the past, so be it, suits me fine ...

Shame that CMC appears to be dead in the water though ....

No hate, no love, just facts

[Kieme(ITA)]

Originally posted by The_Capt:

I understood your point, it's ok, but let me say:

I never had to work on CPU settings in order to make a game work fine (and this computer of mine saw quite a few games ).

And I never had problems with any other kind of settings in order to make a game playable like I had/have to do with CMSF...

Oh, let's say how many CPUs are working now

Finally with my actual configuration I can get 100% from any title off the market while I still don't get 100% from CMSF and this makes me feel bad since CMSF has a 3d engine that I like a lot but it's not the best one I've seen (the best ones I must say work at 100%)

[panzermartin]

We didnt see "give me back my money" threads as with TOW (though, suprisingly initialy had fewer bugs than CMSF). TOW had some passionate haters indeed.. CMSF has mostly a love/hate affair among many of us. Most of the hate will go away if QBs become more playable, some LOS/LOF problems sorted out and new scenarios start to come out. Right now I'm dissapointed with multiplayer popularity since there is virtually noone to play with in RT. I would prefer playing "space lobsters of doom the boargame" than PBEMing with Kornets and Javelins either.

[Kieme(ITA)]

Originally posted by panzermartin:

We didnt see "give me back my money" threads as with TOW (though, suprisingly initialy had fewer bugs than CMSF). TOW had some passionate haters indeed..

Never had a chance to talk about TOW, I must say I played the demo and uninstalled it. That is all for me

I wouldn't have posted a single thread about that, while caring about this game I'm doing it.

[dalem]

Originally posted by The_Capt:

From what I have seen critics of the game fall into two catagories:

-snip-

And from what I have seen, critics of the critics of the game fall into two categories... etc.

Why can't we have a discussion about the game design/direction/philosophy/presentation without being taken to task for even raising the topic?

I'm not asking SF to be BO/BB/AK, and I'm not claiming that BFC is going down in flames because of their new direction. All I'm doing is commenting on my impressions of that new direction in a thread that is mischaracterizing and generalizing all criticism into the Whaaaaaaaaaambulence basket.

As far as those who've commented on my choice of "sloppy" and "lazy", well, that's what some of the decisions look like to me so that's what I'm calling them. My opinion on that is worth exactly One Opinion. Take it, leave it, or balance it with one of your own.

-dale

[monkeezgob]

Spot on dalem. Couldn't agree with you more.

[mr.bean]

once one of the patches allows me to play the game I'll send all the guys at bfc some flowers and a heartshaped box of chocolates.

[Cavtroop]

This game is so frustrating to me - I see a good game under here, somewhere. I even experience it from time to time, where I have a 30 minute stretch that I really enjoy it. Then one of the major bugs pops up - vehicles driving in circles, infantry running down the main street so they can go in the front door of a building rather than the covered back door, etc. Generally at this point, I'd turn the game off, but more often than not, it has crashed on me, so I don't need to.

It looks like 1.02 will start taking care of the AI issues - but no word on the crashing that so many of us are having.

My big problem with this whole process, is paying for what should be a beta release. And its not just BF doing this, it is endemic to the software world now, which is sad.

Having said that, I'm giving this game a patch or two before I throw the baby out with the bathwater . There is a good game under here, somewhere, I hope.

Edit: I didn't address the missing features of WEGO. I still can't ambush in WEGO. Are hiding/cover arcs/ambush markers on the way? that will go a long way to making WEGO more playable....

[The_Capt]

Originally posted by dalem:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by The_Capt:

From what I have seen critics of the game fall into two catagories:

-snip-

And from what I have seen, critics of the critics of the game fall into two categories... etc.

-snip,snip- </font>