Mr Byte Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 May be its just my experience and I just haven't seen it yet. but so far when a Stryker has been hit by a RPG that hasn't KO'd the Stryker the crew just sit there and wait for the next one to come along. they don't pop smoke and GTFOOT they just sit there. Also Syrian and US infantry seem to fight to the last man no matter what they are facing there seems to be no retreat...ever! Now I realise there has to be some game balance and with the firepower available to the US if the syrians weren't a little stubborn there would be precious little combat. but some self presevation has to come in to the equasion somewhere. I recently watched as a Stryker got hit three times by rpg rounds and made no attempt to move at all, I gave them an order next turn and off they went on their merry way. now thats what I call confidence in your vehicle :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itael Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 I have to agree, I played several scenarios and I haven't seen soldiers retreat even once! I had a squad of 9 men that was mowed down by MG fire (a mistake I have made) and the last man standing was willing to fight as if nothing happened. I think it has to do with the hybrid of allowing both RT and WEGO in the engine of CMx2. If it was a WEGO only game, preservation would be higher since more could be done in coding the TacAI. Itai 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguard Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 yeah the AI essentially has no breaking morale. they can panic but they never really do anything hasty 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 Has anyone seen a unit go to ground due to MG fire. Naybe I haven't played enough to see it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securityguard Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 Originally posted by thewood: Has anyone seen a unit go to ground due to MG fire. Naybe I haven't played enough to see it. Do you mean go prone? They'll do that - infact, they have a very nice cowering animation when they're supremely pinned down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 Actually I meant go to ground and look for cover. Whether prone or not. Probably related to very high morale. I may test this over the next few days. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 "Nothing" is an improvement over the "Crawl of death". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 True...I just ran some tests and they do panick and crawl around a little. One note: The default morale ratings in the scenarios for US troops make them supermen. They will run hundreds of meters and lose men but keep on going. They get tired, but keep going. Scenario designers need to note that making all US troops over anything but normal will be sure defeat for Syrians. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaxisAxis Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 I haven't played much of the game to be honest due to the heat and humidity where I am, but from what I can see your right they're just not even trying to defend them selves at all. Friday it was late and I had only 15 minutes to try it out. We where shooting at the enemy from the stryker who was lying on the flat ground out in the open as we shot at them from maybe 50 yards or so and all they did was shoot back with semi automatic rifles, they didn't even get up to find cover or dig in and one by one they died, not even the last few panicked, there was no heroism or "stay your ground and face the enemy right to the end" it was just total lack of awareness in the AI. It was amazing that no one called for an RPG or even ran to where there was heavy artillery-the base was not far from where they were. This was a quick battle but even so how much better will scenarios be in regards to tactics. Personally I don't give a hoot about multiplayer I am not a people person and don't have the patients for it-scheduling an agreeable date and time, setting up an agreed game type, playing at an agreeable style and pace. That's why I like video games to get away from people. Yeah, "take your ball and go home". Too many "gamers" just spend all their time finding short cuts and ways to exploit the game so they can win a quick battle. And that's often all it is with another person quick, simple and boring. I haven't really played enough but I just hope some part of the game will provide a nice challenge with the AI. That's the reason I bought it to get away from everyone, sit back and take my time trying different tactics and strategies against a well thoughtout AI. And it does exist, there are indeed games where the AI is definitely better than humans players: civilization, Gallactic civilization II (no, gay multiplayer in this game), and perhaps even Close Combat COI to name a few. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 I still have yet to anyone retreat or surrender. Looking at the Syrians morale and experiance levels, I would think you would get sureenders and roouts all over the place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 In case anyone failed to notice, troops no longer surrender- as in previous versions. And yes, I witnessed a platoon of Syrians, firing prone at my Striker from 30m out, stoically getting decimated to the last man. BTW, their were in the open on the HIGHWAY. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 Is that a fact or are you just assuming. Hoping BFC gets around to this thread and answers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 I love how the soldiers can suddenly stand up and casually walk over the street while under heavy fire. I said it before, the TacAI is downright poor, and so is the pathfinding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Posted July 29, 2007 Share Posted July 29, 2007 Originally posted by Panzer76: I said it before, the TacAI is downright poor, and so is the pathfinding. Agreed, though actually the pathfinding isn't poor. It's absolutely horrible! What the heck were they thinking releasing the game in this state?!?!? I'm not a Battlefront hater by any means. Look at my date of registration. I've loved EVERY CM until now. The Tac AI is bad enough, but the pathfinding bug is a game killer for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itael Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I would like to hear an official comment about the TacAI please. Are the developers aware of this and it's on their "to fix" list? Thanks, Itai 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achim Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 The AI need some fixes. The game "feels" pretty well it´s fun to move around your troops and watch the action. But the AI is lousy: - Vehicles drive circles: "Do u see the flowers ? No ? I ll drive another circle ...." - Infantry wont move through wall breaches: "Damm, its a big hole, but the gate 500 Meters away is much bigger, lets move" - AI dont fire on targets: "General doesnt say ... fire if they kill all your friends 50 meter away. The general just say "move"" - Dont react if getting hit: "Damm, do u see that, they fired with RPG on us and killed 2 guys .... They are just lucky, i think they wont hit again" - Enter the building: "Damm look at this nice door. Nobody can see us if we use them ..... Lets take the other door at the street ..... The one thats coverd by the MG and RGP guys ? ....Yep, u got it and now .... MOVE soldier I have one question .... CMSF simulates US troops and the game is very realistic .... Are US soldiers realy that sappy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Rock of Easy Company Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Maybe they dont retreat and fight to the last man because their insurgents? And maybe no one surrenders because its either certain death (US) or they just wont (INS)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNoobie Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Originally posted by Panzer76: I love how the soldiers can suddenly stand up and casually walk over the street while under heavy fire. I said it before, the TacAI is downright poor, and so is the pathfinding. lol... ive seen Syrians just walk into a line of fire NO FEAR BABY NO FEAR! kind of an easy win :/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Originally posted by Sgt.Rock of Easy Company: Maybe they dont retreat and fight to the last man because their insurgents? And maybe no one surrenders because its either certain death (US) or they just wont (INS)? That is called post-fact ratioanlization. You are playing mostly Syrians with relatively low morale. I have to see a surrender or a Syrian unit rout. I have seen someone say they have seen them, but very few have stepped up and to say its a regular occurence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Last 10 minutes of the QB I played last night had 8 different Syrian squads walk out of a building and across a wide street with 2 Bradleys sitting on it. Every last one of them was gunned down laughably quickly and only 2 guys from one squad thought about crawling back towards the building. But then, they just had to come back out and walk in front of the firing squad too. AI self preservation and pathfinding would have to be the two things I want to see worked on most. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Rock of Easy Company Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Originally posted by thewood: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sgt.Rock of Easy Company: Maybe they dont retreat and fight to the last man because their insurgents? And maybe no one surrenders because its either certain death (US) or they just wont (INS)? That is called post-fact ratioanlization. You are playing mostly Syrians with relatively low morale. I have to see a surrender or a Syrian unit rout. I have seen someone say they have seen them, but very few have stepped up and to say its a regular occurence. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Originally posted by Sgt.Rock of Easy Company: Maybe they dont retreat and fight to the last man because their insurgents? And maybe no one surrenders because its either certain death (US) or they just wont (INS)? Most are not insurgents. They are Syrian regular army. Remember the 1st and 2nd "major hostilities" phases of the Gulf Wars? Units not surrendering, or reacting to morale (routing, etc.) is another giant omission....or hopefully a giant bug. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I am, too, agree that it is a major gripe where an AFV do not react when fired upon, even if it is a near-miss. BMP-1 is worse, it does not shoot back like a Stryker does. I have experience a scenario ends early due to enemy surrender, but not an individual unit, may be the mechanism has changed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazy Gun Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 The lack of troops retreating is a major problem for me. Most battles in reality are won by breaking the opponents morale as much as killing his troops. Here we must kill every member of a squad to ensure that later in the game they don't get their nerve back and ambush you. SPOILER AHEAD As an example, in the first campaign, there are a number of platoons of Syria infantry outside the enterance to the base. After much pounding from my armoured vehicles they were decimated. However individual soldiers, with the rest of their squad lying around them as casualties, still pop up and fire off AK rounds. They therefore have to be wiped out before they can be bypassed. I don't believe this is even remotely realistic even if they were fanactical insurgents instead of the milita/regular force I think they were. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 If you look at some of the AARs out of Iraq, insurgents typically don't fight to the death unless surrounded. That is why on an operational level the Army and Marines have to put blocking positions in place on offensives into towns. They may not run away screaming, the enemy in CMSF stand and fight when almost any other human would be crawling away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.