AI: self preservation missing

[Steiner14]

When modelling asymetrical warfare, it would be quite important to be able to give hidden, ambushing units a shoot and retreat command (for the AI during scenario design maybe even depending on strenght of the incoming fire, or numbers of wounded in the squad).

If that could be scripted with cover arcs and retreat paths torwards fallback positions (multiple fallback positions?), that could make the AI really dangerous.

[istari]

IF this is true, and I haven't played enough to say personally, wouldn't this be supremely ironic?

There's definitely a tone of superiority among some on this board about how CM is so much better than other RTS like Company of Heroes. (Don't get me wrong, I agree with that sentiment!)

But it is ironic that after all the protestations about how CMSF is not like the other RTS, here Battlefront seems to have added (by intent or not) one of the key dynamics of "those other" RTS - you win by destroying every unit, not by breaking morale.

Hope this can be addressed with future patches.

Chris

[Muppetry]

I have to see a surrender or a Syrian unit rout.

I've seen a Syrian unit rout once, after bringing down a building and shooting a couple of Javelins into them, but they just seemed to sit there as if permanently pinned rather than fleeing as units in CMx1 would.

[thewood]

I had a US squad listed as routed but it didn't move. I actually went into the editor and brought is morale down to the lowest setting to get it to do it.

[Deathsai]

It feels incredibly gamey and arcadey, two adjectives I never thought I'd use to describe a game in the CM series, to end up killing most of the enemies and seeing none retreat. I feel like I'm playing Call of Duty, not what is supposed to be a realistic strategy game.

This isn't even taking steps backwards from CMx1, this is CMx2 falling flat on it's face...

[Runyan99]

I do want to mention one thing I have noticed.

Soldiers have a tendency to stand like a deer for a few seconds at the end end of a movement waypoint, which is a fanstastic opportunity to get shot, then slowly kneel, then slowly go prone.

How about getting these guys to act like they are in combat, and get their asses on the ground in a timely manner?

[SmithyG]

Some units will stay standing/kneeling even already in position. They'll only stay prone for a little white and then pop right back up.

[Darkmath]

Double post

[ August 02, 2007, 04:54 AM: Message edited by: Darkmath ]

[Darkmath]

Alright, so bring back the whole squad fleeing at the same time concept from CMX1!

Right now ,some individuals within an unit DO panic, which is far more realistic than in CMX1.

So, saying there are no morale model is IMO completely wrong.

However, when an individual is panicking, he seem to always behave the same way: sit at one place waiting things go better.

It seems devs. haven't included a fleeing away or surrendering routine, which should be in ASAP.

You guys think staying at the same place isn't a realistic behaviour while broken.

When you are taking heavy fire with no nearby cover around you, do you think running away is the best solution, like a CMX1 squad did in front of a MG42?

In CMX1, the squad get wipped out once it is routing in this situation.

Still ,I agree the game is broken if routing isn't represented.

As for the IFV not reacting after being hit by a RPG, are you sure your IFV has spotted the enemy?

The spotting ability of a Stryker appear somewhat poor if not opened up.

However, even if the Stryker can't see where does come the fire, it should reverse and pop smoke still.

[massive1974]

Well, I've seen Syrian troops crawl across a street, away from the UNFORGIVING GODLY fire of a Stryker. their pants were definitely full.

[GriffinCheng+]

I have seen troops claw but they are rare. I have yet to see troops running around crazy like we have in CMx1 (so much for lessons learnt after these 60 years...) My educated guess is, it has something to do with the suppression level, which builds up very quickly when an unit is being fired upon, faster than morale break-down.

[thewood]

All you have to look at is Strykers taking fire from T72s andstanding and fight with a .50

[Darkmath]

Yes, this specifical issue need to be fixed.

Some people here are saying the player have to do the self preservation as the game is designed for RT.

I want to know the dev's answer about this design issue, as self preservation is necessary for WEGO mode, which is my favourite play mode.

Would you put a more active AI self preservation in the next patches ?

Or is this would change game design?

[Michael Dorosh]

See Steve's comments here

The TacAI is being worked on and improvements will be in the 1.02 patch, scheduled for about a week from now.

[Steiner14]

Running away right during combat? Shouldn't happen often and i could live very well with it in CMx1 as abstraction of a panicked or routed unit - but with 1:1 modeling?

Let the panicked soldier crawl into the next corner or only eat dirt and let him ignore all commands is enough IMO (if one among 20 stands up and tries to flee, that seems better to me, than fleeing as sandard procedure during heavy enemy fire like in CMx1).

[Huntarr]

I'm really distressed about the fact a big deal was made about the separation of Suppression and Moral. Of course suppression is going to put your head down, it's more an immediate knee jerk reaction to fire. Morale is being factored you can see it when they take casualties. It’s that overwhelming need to survive and get the flock out of there. They just need to write some code for routing to be in effect. Otherwise what is the point of the separation?

Some more thoughts on routing

[JOGR]

Not to mention. AI inf crawls in the open instead of running from cover to cover. Even when close to solid cover AI still prefers to crawl taking fire along the way (eventually getting obliterated).

What's up with the vehicle crews playing heroes after bailing out? Too often I see crew inf continuing on towards overwhelming enemy positions. Simply crawling to their deaths. It's both annoying and time consuming to watch.

[Dirtweasle]

Originally posted by jogr:

What's up with the vehicle crews playing heroes after bailing out? Too often I see crew inf continuing on towards overwhelming enemy positions. Simply crawling to their deaths. It's both annoying and time consuming to watch.

I think it's that first little movement line that gets plopped down. How the programing does that is beyond me but I saw it happen to a Stryker crew just last night. The Stryker took a fatal hit, two crewmen bailed and went forward several yards toward the enemy before running back around to a little building behind them. They knew enough to find the cover, and run like hell for it, but first they had to get to the end of that first little movement line / command.