Cars - there will be abandoned cars right ?

[Pete Wenman]

Just flagging this one, as I can't imagine

modern warfare without loads of parked/abandoned cars/trucks etc.

No need for them to move so no civies required, but streets choked with cars, potential VBIED, cover for either side, smoking and or on fire, burnt out, or possible wrongly identified targets. [ Imagine putting down area fire on a suspected APC/Humvee to discover its a beat up Lada]

Loads of uses so please make them an option in the editor.

[Sergei]

Hey, didn't I just ask for that? Plus other abandoned/destroyed vehicles, including AFV's and airplanes (for airstrip seizures), tents etc.

Hard to estimate what the impact on gameplay itself would be, though, because I have no idea what the gameplay will be in the first place.

[Kwazydog]

Time will tell guys but I would say yes, we would certainly want to see these type of things in game

Dan

[Sergei]

Sounds good. Maybe we'll even get all those horse and cow carcasses for the WW2 game!

[Tero]

All right !

One minor point though: how do you spot the suicide bomber driving his car towards your check point ? Especially if NO civilian vehicle is running in the game.

It would be a bit on the stupid side if the only moving civvie vehicle is ALWAYS the suicide bomber.

[Sergei]

Tero, there aren't any suicide bombers in the game, I think. It concentrates on the offensive phase, not occupation and counter-insurgency operations.

[Kurtz]

There will be no suicide bombers. Check Steve's post in this thread, the second post from the bottom.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Sergei:

[snips]

Hard to estimate what the impact on gameplay itself would be, though, because I have no idea what the gameplay will be in the first place.

The effect on gameplay, Shirley, will be that players using the M-1A1 can crush abandoned cars liek bug, whereas the Stryker-equipped player will have to adopt a more manoeuvrist policy and fit Monster Truck wheels before driving over the top of them.

All the best,

John.

[Ryan Crierie]

If you could place "shot down" helicopters,

you could create some very good scenarios from

real life, such as Operation Anaconda, and

Black Hawk Down.

[Tero]

Originally posted by Kurtz:

There will be no suicide bombers. Check Steve's post in this thread, the second post from the bottom.

Roger that.

[Sergei]

Actually, I have been using suicide bombers since day immemorial in CM. When my tank hunter teams throw that bundled explosive onto the tank, their life expectancy drops very sharply. But hey, they were 'volunteers'...

[gunnergoz]

Originally posted by John D Salt:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sergei:

[snips]

Hard to estimate what the impact on gameplay itself would be, though, because I have no idea what the gameplay will be in the first place.

The effect on gameplay, Shirley, will be that players using the M-1A1 can crush abandoned cars liek bug, whereas the Stryker-equipped player will have to adopt a more manoeuvrist policy and fit Monster Truck wheels before driving over the top of them.

All the best,

John. </font>

[MikeyD]

I don't think you'd want to roll over a sedan in a 8x8 Stryker. Strykers are known for their relative inability to get over obstacles that wouldn't have stopped a tracked vehicle. A generic AC curse.

I do hope the scenery is properly festooned with 'modern' stuff. Those concrete 'Jersey Barriers" that straddle the middle of highways these days, billboards, highway signs. I hope they avoid the Hollywood tendency to make any Arab location look like something out of 'Sinbad the Sailor'. Of course there are secluded villages that haven't changed in a century. Then there's everything else, that was generally put up after 1958.

[undead reindeer cavalry]

i am a bit skeptical about there being cars and such in the game. the reason for my skepticism is entirely based on Steve's earlier comments regarding vehicle collisions: he seemed to be fairly determined that such things would be too marginal phenomena to waste programming time on. i have to say i am surprised of his take on the issue as he must have known already back then what the setting of the first CMx2 game would be.

in my opinion vehicle collisions would play an important role in the CMSF setting. i find it likely that the Syrian forces would use hasty improvised roadblocks (trucks etc) on the narrow streets, both to prevent movement of enemy vehicles and to block LOS of enemy overwatch. of course debris like cars would act as unintential roadblocks as well. you need vehicle collisions first of all to make these improvised roadblocks prevent movement of light vehicles, and secondly to allow heavy vehicles to breach these improvised roadblocks. one another natural key role for vehicle collisions in the CMSF setting would be the use of vehicles to breach those light brick walls to create additional passages for infantry. both of these two roles are IMO quite essential things to model in MOUT in Syria 2007 scenario.

[J Ruddy]

But will fruit from an overturned cart roll down the road?

Rolling fruit is critical to the success of CMSF!

[RSColonel_131st]

...and of course there will be grogs around complaining about the wrong make/model of the abandoned cars in the street.

Seriously, agree with URC...this only makes sense if there is prober collision detection enabled in the game.

[J Ruddy]

Originally posted by RSColonel_131st:

...and of course there will be grogs around complaining about the wrong make/model of the abandoned cars in the street.

Seriously, agree with URC...this only makes sense if there is prober collision detection enabled in the game.

Ya - and you'll get the "They don't grow that variety of watermelon in Syria" fruit Grogs complaining about the seedless melons exploding when hit with the .50.

[MikeyD]

Pete's original comment has a point. Pretty much anywhere in the modern world, an urban environment would be packed solid with autos on the streets.

I recall there was an uproar when the last James Bond movie came out. At some point James escapes his North Korean captors. When he lands (spectacularly, of course) in the South what do you see in the background but a peasant farmer with a bullock hitched up to a plow! There were howls of protest! South Korea considers itself among the most industrially advanced countries in the world, and the old peasant-behind-the-plow steriotype was taken as a racist insult.

The point to all this rambling: It would be a bit offensive and inaccurate to represent 2007 Syria as some pre-industrial backwater. Sure, its a poor country, but even the most rural community is familiar with the concept of automobiles and air conditioners.

[Battlefront.com]

For sure DRIVING civilian cars won't be in CM:SF because civilians won't be. But parked/abandoned cars actually have some impact on tactical ops (i.e. cover and obstacles). We just have to see what we can do about that when we get to it.

There is no problem with the physics of nudging stuff out of the way (had it in CMx1) or possibly even driving over them (an Abrams can flatten a car quite nicely). If we get cars in there we'll have to do these things.

Steve

[Tero]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

For sure DRIVING civilian cars won't be in CM:SF because civilians won't be. But parked/abandoned cars actually have some impact on tactical ops (i.e. cover and obstacles). We just have to see what we can do about that when we get to it.

There is no problem with the physics of nudging stuff out of the way (had it in CMx1) or possibly even driving over them (an Abrams can flatten a car quite nicely). If we get cars in there we'll have to do these things.

Steve

Will there be stationary booby trapped/command detonated car bombs ?

[Abbott]

...and doodads to dress up the map. Garages, carports, sheds, sidewalks, billboards, fences, 6 foot tall walls, 3 foot tall walls and...and...

[Sergei]

Wouldn't those be hard to accomplish with 'doodads'?

[Abbott]

Originally posted by Sergei:

Wouldn't those be hard to accomplish with 'doodads'?

Doodads to CM is what you know them to be.

The word "DooDads" (N. American) means something whose name is either forgotten or not known. Or just a hodgepodge of stuff, for instance; “There was doodads laying all over the place". A bunch of miscellaneous stuff lying about to dress up the map, (eye-candy).

My meaning is I think it would be great to have a bunch of common stuff to randomly place about the map to add interest or bits of cover. Like parked cars, concrete road dividers, sheds, check point booths etc...

[Ivan Drago]

Originally posted by Abbott:

I second that...in fact it would look downright silly to see the high level of detail on soldiers/vehicles and yet have the urban environments look as drab and generic as CMx1.

But something tells me BFC is very well aware of all this