Outsourcing?

[MikeyD]

While absent-mindedly surfing the web (I'm having a really boring day at work today) I stumbled upon "RetailDBStore", which apparently constructs and sells 3-D models online (for God knows what what purposes). It got me thinking. Is BFC planning to take the time to construct ALL their own vehicles and weapons for the game?

I recall awhile ago BFC claimed the new game engine could achieve a faster turn-around due to its modular design and the ability to farm-out some of the more tedious labor. I can imagine that churning out Hummer variants might be considered tedious.

Yeh, I know BFC's not going to let anybody else touch their game engine, and they are definitely doing their own Strykers (the RetailDBStore Strykers don't look particularly inspiring). But what would the board prefer, the lesser stuff (overflying drones and copters, civilian cars & trucks, etc.) done to CM's hand-crafted perfection or... the game released a month or two earlier because they farmed the work out?

This is where BFC says its none of my freakin' business HOW they get the product out

[aka_tom_w]

stryker page

Stryker:

Each model in Openflight (.flt) includes :

* 4 Levels of details

* 6 different paint schemas (where applicable): Normal Green, Desert, Camo, Winter, Radar, IR

* Articulated parts (where applicable): Wheels, Turret, Gun, Machine gun, Launcher, Mortar, Commander, Camera

* Destroyed State

* DIS entity kind information

• .max 3D Studio MAX format STRYKER Package $2,995.00 $1,995.00 On Sale!

File Size: 57 706 KB

[MikeyD]

That MGS looks just a tad dated.

Here are some photos of the real thing from the latest AUSA conference. Notice no muzzle brake, beefed-up recoil with armor protection.

MGS 3/4 rear BIG PICTURE

MGS 3/4 front BIG PICTURE

MGS turret side BIG PICTURE

I thing BFC said elsewhere that they were nostalgic for the good old say of 10 years between vehicle upgrades. It's hard to keep up nowadays!

[Andrew H.]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

stryker page

Stryker:

Each model in Openflight (.flt) includes :

* 4 Levels of details

* 6 different paint schemas (where applicable): Normal Green, Desert, Camo, Winter, Radar, IR

* Articulated parts (where applicable): Wheels, Turret, Gun, Machine gun, Launcher, Mortar, Commander, Camera

* Destroyed State

* DIS entity kind information

• .max 3D Studio MAX format STRYKER Package $2,995.00 $1,995.00 On Sale!

File Size: 57 706 KB

That's cool, but it seems kind of pricey for just one model. And that assumes that it could just be plugged in with no additional work or testing on BFC's part.

[Sergei]

It seems to be not one, but 16 models. There's two options:

# 4 Levels of details

# 6 different paint schemas (where applicable): Normal Green, Desert, Camo, Winter, Radar, IR

# Articulated parts (where applicable): Wheels, Turret, Gun, Machine gun, Launcher, Mortar, Commander, Camera

# Destroyed State

# DIS entity kind information

for $2,595.00

-or-

# 1 Level of detail

# 1 paint scheme

# Articulated parts (where applicable): Wheels, Turret, Gun, Machine gun, Launcher, Mortar, Commander, Camera

for $1,995.00

It's not an altogether bad deal for a game company, especially as it means that the in-house artists can use the time saved on other models. But I'm pretty damn shure that whether BFC uses any bought models or not, they have already discussed this.

[Mace]

IMHO I don't think outsourcing is really necessary, given that the amount of military equipment provided in the CMx2 releases is going to be substantially less then those in CMBO, CMBB and CMAK.

Second, there's the issue of the 'externally produced' models not being configured properly tp conform to game-Engine requirements. For example, the polygon count may be too detailed and slow the game engine down.

Additional work thus may be required to reconfigure them.

And my guess is given a few years has gone since CMAK's release that Dan has managed to produce quite a few models to date, and my guess is that since Dan has been doing this as a fulltime job for quite a few years now, that he has the ability to churn out meshes quite quickly.

Just my 2c Aus.

[MikeyD]

Yeh, I wasn't really expecting BFC would ever go for much more than a selection of non-moving car & pickup, or maybe old Soviet truck and APC models, just to save themselves the bother. Then they'd probaly want to redo the skins to fit with their own style afterward. I somehow doubt you can find a up-to-the-minute Abrams TUSK upgrade for sale anywhere on the net.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Mace:

IMHO I don't think outsourcing is really necessary, given that the amount of military equipment provided in the CMx2 releases is going to be substantially less then those in CMBO, CMBB and CMAK.

But OTOH, they will be many times as detailed compared to previous, so it's not as if Kwazy is going to be fiddling his thumbs much. One of the bigger problems with this is that you'll need a lot of detailed photographs from different angles in order to be able to model those details. And the new infantry animations will require LOTS of work, I bet. Other than that, I agree with your post.

[hellfish]

I know a bunch of guys willing to model all that stuff (very well detailed as well) for probably a free copy of the game.

A lot of EULAs on those RetailDB-type models can be pretty restrictive - like they can't be used in commercial products or government products, etc. Plus, once you've got the base Stryker done, all the others are pretty easy to do.

[Mace]

Originally posted by Sergei:

One of the bigger problems with this is that you'll need a lot of detailed photographs from different angles in order to be able to model those details.

There is a cheap solution.

Buy a model kit for $30 and use that as a basis for the 3D model, because the research has already been done by the plastic kit company that produced it.

The only thing to remember is to scale it up to the correct size in game.

I agree with your post.

ooh. I'll sleep better tonight knowing that.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Mace:

There is a cheap solution.

Buy a model kit for $30 and use that as a basis for the 3D model, because the research has already been done by the plastic kit company that produced it.

The only thing to remember is to scale it up to the correct size in game.

This is actually how BFC has done it before. It might be a bit hard to find a commercial scale model for some Syrian modernized T-62 or some of the latest American stuff, though, and even if you have one, you'd still prefer to have photographic evidence to get the details right (mimicking the original is always better than mimicking a scale model).

Then again, it's not an exact science. I mean, if they replaced the graphical model of M1A2 Abrams with that of M1 Abrams, who would notice/complain? I mean, we're not picky on detail...

Originally posted by Mace:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />

ooh. I'll sleep better tonight knowing that. </font>

Also, I think you're quite sexy as well.

[Mace]

Originally posted by Sergei:

I mean, if they replaced the graphical model of M1A2 Abrams with that of M1 Abrams, who would notice/complain? I mean, we're not picky on detail

Well I am.

The M1A2 has all those extra bits on the turret top, and by golly, I expect to have them represented in the game!!!

And I ranted and raved when they used the Wespe model for the Grille in CMBB/CMAK.

*starts foaming at the mouth*

[hellfish]

I'd notice. There's a lot of difference between an M1A2 and an M1.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I was really annoyed about the vehicles with generic models in CMBB. I hope we've seen the last of that.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by fytinghellfish:

I'd notice. There's a lot of difference between an M1A2 and an M1.

It was a joke, obviously. I mean, this is a bunch of people who in the past have complained about American bird sounds in the game, among other things.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Mace:

Second, there's the issue of the 'externally produced' models not being configured properly tp conform to game-Engine requirements. For example, the polygon count may be too detailed and slow the game engine down.

Yeah. That could be a real choke point. Outsourced models probably won't be compatible and reconfiguring them could take as much time and labor—assuming it can be done at all—as just doing the model in house.

Michael

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Sergei:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mace:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />

ooh. I'll sleep better tonight knowing that. </font>

Also, I think you're quite sexy as well. </font>

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

Outsourced models probably won't be compatible and reconfiguring them could take as much time and labor—assuming it can be done at all—as just doing the model in house.

Michael

That I doubt. The description says that the models have the following articulated parts (where applicable): Wheels, Turret, Gun, Machine gun, Launcher, Mortar, Commander, Camera. And while there'd doubtlessly be certain things to do, it wouldn't be nearly as time consuming as the actual modelling itself (which is a bitch).

[M1A1TC]

I hope that CMSF models and terrain look this good. This should be the standard.

http://www.realdbstore.com/product2852.html

[ November 12, 2005, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: M1A1TankCommander ]

[panzermartin]

What I would love to see included in CMSF, are some civilian vehicles, cars, trucks, vans etc.

If multiple skins are in, the modding community wont have any problem to give them some texture variety and add realism in the urban areas (where

most of CMSF battles will take place)

Poles, traffic lights, and signs in arabic would be great too...although they might be considered

as luxury.

[panzermartin]

my first double..

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by M1A1TankCommander:

I hope that CMSF models and terrain look this good.

I can't say I'm too crazy about their blotchy ground textures. That's no better than CMx1 at its worst.

Michael

[Andrew H.]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by M1A1TankCommander:

I hope that CMSF models and terrain look this good.

I can't say I'm too crazy about their blotchy ground textures. That's no better than CMx1 at its worst.

Michael </font>