thewood Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 While the editor is powerful, it has some limitations. Is there any plan to add triggers beyond time-based events, like entering an area or proximity? Eventually, I'l like to see triggers like casuaty levels or specific unit status. Also, what about making it easier to select an individual unit without having to go through and delete everyone else just to get that one unit? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'Rogers Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 delete everyone else just to get that one unit?On that note, it also would be nice if there was an undelete option. It is frustrating to bring a battalion down to company level, play test the scenario, and realize maybe I cut one to many squads. Also a way to select multiple things. If I want different elements within a company to have different stats (ammo, experience, and the like) it would be nice if I could just select multiple things at the same time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Originally posted by C'Rogers: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />delete everyone else just to get that one unit?On that note, it also would be nice if there was an undelete option. It is frustrating to bring a battalion down to company level, play test the scenario, and realize maybe I cut one to many squads. Also a way to select multiple things. If I want different elements within a company to have different stats (ammo, experience, and the like) it would be nice if I could just select multiple things at the same time. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'Rogers Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Could have sworn I tried that with no success. Thank you muchly, now I feel silly for just not asking earlier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 heh... many moons ago there really was no undelete, simply because it hadn't been coded yet. I think Charles fixed it in because I threatened to throw a tantrum every day until it was added. There are no Editor changes in v1.05. However, we do indeed plan on adding some coordination script options very soon. They've been on the drawing board for a long time. We just haven't had a chance to put them in yet. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webwing Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 - The undelete thing was my only big problem with this area of the editor. I found it out by chance when started with the editor. Later completely forgot! What a headache! Now I read this thread!!!! - 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webwing Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Double post... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Steve, what about the problem with the major FPS drop when working with large maps in the 2d map editor, will that be addressed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Wow, I though I was the only one with that problem. I was beginning to think my map was too big to run. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 no, it's a generalized problem: slowness in the editor it makes working with the map editor a frustating experience. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bongotastic Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 However, we do indeed plan on adding some coordination script options very soon. They've been on the drawing board for a long time.There will be options to use scripted behaviors or will we be able to script ourselves? That would be cool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 On page 112 of the Big Book of CM:SF it says... "If at any time you change your mind, not a problem. Simply highlght the formation or unit and hit the delete button to reset them" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 This is not an unreasonable list of requests. Reposted here from the Scenario design forum Originally posted by Webwing: Now that Steve is back reading the forum I’d like to post, in one single thread, my take on some issues i find important regarding the editor. Some of the topics might be addressed in 1.05 but still a relevant thread in my opinion. I have already spent an enormous amount of time in the editor. Much more time than playing the game itself. I would very much like to know what others have to say about those issues as well. And this is one of the reasons for this thread. Time savers and little tips that would help specially the beginner: The option to turn off fog of war. On top of my list!!! I don’t have a clue how other mission designers do it (apart from MarkEzra). I think having to place high buildings with spy units on top to look at the enemy to see what the AI is doing is a very clumsy way to solve this problem. Pressing surrender or cease fire also is not exactly a solution since then you have to restart the mission. Not very efficient and very time consuming. -Parameters: Casualties – less than, more than. Just to make it clearer. Yes, its in the manual, I know. -Highlight what Plan you are in an even easier way to see. When you have more than one plan and specially when programming RED AI (most of the time). I go back and forth from the Units tab to the AI tab. As I do that sometimes I just add orders to say group 3. I test it and it doesn’t work. In the end I find out that I was programming group 3 from Plan 1 of Blue, the default! Yes, I know, its my mistake but if there was a way to improve that would be very welcome. Perhaps using tabs, I’m not sure. But this one is maybe just me. I don’t know. - First plan can never be set to NOT USED. Which makes it more difficult to test a mission with several plans. I understand the logic behind it. There need to be at least one active plan. Not sure what would be the solution here. -> Another thing that might be interesting is to be able as in the campaign, to disable one side as playable. If you plan a mission for Blue only, the player would not have the option to choose Red before the start of the mission. The way it is since he will only read the briefing after that he might think there is the option to play Red when in fact there isn’t. Some things must be looked into like the artillery issue and the fact that the roof command has no effect for instance. Other players/mission designers will add to this list, I’m sure. Improving the game improves the editor Some areas of the game, once they are patched and improved will prove a greater help to scenario designers than actually adding new features to the editor. For instance Spotting of units, Pathfinding, AI in general, Use of Javelin by the AI, Column command for convoys, just to name a few off the top of my head. I’d definitely would rather see this areas have the attention of BF before start lobbying for new features in the editor. Like I said those would help designers more than any possible new feature would. Triggers and random events. I’m all for it from a mission designer’s point of view. But to be honest I don’t feel that they are in accordance with the philosophy behind the design of the editor as stated in the game's manual. And I totally agree with this philosophy. I still haven’t explored the full potential of the editor without triggers, etc. It has got enough depth the way it is. The editor in TOW(which I also like very much), script oriented, gives you most of the features I have seen requested in this forum, with a lot of control. Still people in the TOW forum are requesting new commands to be added all the time! There is no end to it really. In CM:SF editor BF has achieved a great balance between ease of use and powerful features. To water it down to make it easier to use would completely kill it. But to add too many options will make it too complex for most players. But as you noticed by now I’m an editor freak, so the more features the better for me! Units Structure Human beings in general have a certain resistance to change. We prefer the comfort of our old ways. IMO the Units structure in CM:SF is a good example of this. First few times I used it felt cumbersome and restrictive. I feel the opposite now and strongly so. To the point of saying that changing it would be a step backwards. For starters it’s educational to new users as there you have all the structure and chain of command for you to see. It is very clear, simple and easy to use. In the beginning you think you will need to add and delete a lot and will be time consuming. Not so. It keeps your troops very well organized. Map editor A beauty. What can I say? More flavor objects? More buildings? Let people add their own custom made objects? All welcomed. Campaigns Never thought it could be so easy to link 3 missions with branches in a mini campaign! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Would also be nice if we could directly edit the equipment that a vehicel carries, as for example reduce the number of Javelins. I would also prefer if we could remove the HQ unit of a formation. If formations and the chain of command are so important as it is pointed out in the manual (IIRC), than it should also be possible to cut the chain of command, right? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Originally posted by Leopard II: Would also be nice if we could directly edit the equipment that a vehicel carries, as for example reduce the number of Javelins. Yes for sure, they are like small, man portable, tactical, fire and forget nukes in the game! (for scenario balance purposes this one weapon is THE most unbalancing factor IMHO especially because the TAC AI when the Computer AI is the US player cannot acquire and shoot them, but that is a WHOLE other issue.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 The Editor will evolve over time. More control over what gets selected for units is planned. I too do not like the HQ requirement. The current reality is a compromise between the way it originally was (don't ask ) and the way I think it should be. We always try to move towards the ideal, so hopefully there will be an improvement here. No, players will not be able to write their own AI scripts as such. That would require a whole lot of new coding and UI. Not in the plans. The coordination options we're intending on putting in will function similar to the ones already available to you, just with different parameters and coded behavior. 2D map speed has already been improved, believe it or not Hopefully Charles can do more to speed it up because I think it clearly would benefit from such improvements. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pad152 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 The option to turn off fog of war. On top of my list!!! I don’t have a clue how other mission designers do it (apart from MarkEzra). I think having to place high buildings with spy units on top to look at the enemy to see what the AI is doing is a very clumsy way to solve this problem. Pressing surrender or cease fire also is not exactly a solution since then you have to restart the mission. Not very efficient and very time consuming. How about an AI vs AI so you can watch how the AI carries out it's orders! Even with spy units can't always see what's really going on! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 How about an AI vs AISome of us have been asking for that one for a LONG time. :cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Something in the map editor I really miss from CMx1 is the way to draw roads etc. I understand that the tiles are handled different (and they are smaller), but the result on the map looks rather the same. The way it is done now is a nightmare for me...at least it is much more timeconsuming than before. It takes me 10 minutes to create a perfect 'X' street crossing, while in the old editor I needed just a single mouseclick. I would prefer to use this time for more important things... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1A1TC Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Yes, the road building needs to be improved. Also, Steve, can we have a "delete all formatting" button? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Originally posted by Leopard II: Would also be nice if we could directly edit the equipment that a vehicel carries, as for example reduce the number of Javelins. You can control vehicle Javelin by working with "Supply" The max Javelin is 3 the min is one...an example of this is found in "Chance Encounter" I used "Scarce", I believe.. Same thing with AT4 for the infantry...just can't get below 2 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Originally posted by MarkEzra: You can control vehicle Javelin by working with "Supply" The max Javelin is 3 the min is one...an example of this is found in "Chance Encounter" I used "Scarce", I believe.. Same thing with AT4 for the infantry...just can't get below 2 Well, that's the indirect method and can be used as temporary workaround; but even a single Javelin can be one to much, I think, while on the other hand the small arms ammo get's limited by setting the supply level, too, what's not necessarily the intention of the scenario designer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I agree, I think "scarce supply" is an ugly work around to the problem of too many Javelins unbalancing one force when trying to play balance a scenario. FWIW 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webwing Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: The Editor will evolve over time. More control over what gets selected for units is planned. I too do not like the HQ requirement. The current reality is a compromise between the way it originally was (don't ask ) and the way I think it should be. We always try to move towards the ideal, so hopefully there will be an improvement here. No, players will not be able to write their own AI scripts as such. That would require a whole lot of new coding and UI. Not in the plans. The coordination options we're intending on putting in will function similar to the ones already available to you, just with different parameters and coded behavior. 2D map speed has already been improved, believe it or not Hopefully Charles can do more to speed it up because I think it clearly would benefit from such improvements. Steve I see no problem with the HQ. Specially IF it's proven that they do influence the performance of the troops. It seems very realistic. You can have green troops but if the HQ is veteran with +2 leadership they will coordinate the troops really well when close by. You would need to be careful not to let those high ranking officers get killed. Besides the only mandatory HQ is at Squad level. Great news! Specially the coordination options. It's tricky to predict how long one unit will take to get from A to B specially if they have to engage the enemy on the way. It will make AI attacks a lot more 'intelligent'. -- [ December 05, 2007, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Webwing ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 The one thing I have noticed with the time-base plans if you get a flank on an AI group, you can just sit there and watch them roll by. Drop fire on them and some will react and go to ground, but in general, they just continue on there merry way to their plan waypont. I too am somewhat disappointed with not being able to edit ammo directly. This was a key aspect of scenario building for some units in CM1. People have been asking for AI v AI since CMBO beta. [ December 06, 2007, 05:00 AM: Message edited by: thewood ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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