What just happened?

[c3k]

Gents,

Another critique. But, to put it in perspective, v1.07 is a very good game. BF.C has crafted an excellent system. Thank you.

In a scenario, playing WEGO vs the AI, I started the next turn when I noticed that 2 of my units had taken casualties. They were in what I thought was a quiet sector. (Well done scenario designer and BF.C!) Unfortunately I have no friggin' clue what happened! I hadn't noticed them getting hit before I hit the (tiny) "DONE" button.

Arrrggghhhh! Was it an RPG? Maybe small arms? A mortar shell? Or did a tank roll over them? I have no friggin clue, despite 4 vehicles, and 9 dismounted survivors being RIGHT THERE.

"Sergeant! What the hell just happened here?"

"Sir, I'm not sure. We had assumed a tactical position here, oriented on the objective, when I noticed Jenkins there get a red circle and over that way Smitty turned a bit yellow."

Now, I'm all for ambushes, etc. But, as a player, I'd like to know when my units take hits. I'm not looking for the cause, but the timing of it. That way I can use the replay feature as needed.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Additionally, it'd be great after the game to see who got what. Which enemy unit got the CO? How many kills did that MG get? Etc.

Thanks,

Ken

[Melnibone]

I liked the idea somebody had of the floating icons somehow displaying that a unit was under fire\taking casualties (within the last minute).

[CptWasp]

Yes, or maybe a log of such events (as in the Close Combat series).

[Spindry69]

Or how about the option for the real time to pause upon certain triggers. Such as enemy unit spotted, casualty taken. I think this would make real time much more playable.

[Darkmage]

Spindry that would definitely help in some of the larger RT games if for example you have your force split and can only focus on one part at time. Perhaps this option could be selectable or not depending on the size of the battle for example.

[Chelco]

Originally posted by c3k:

"Sergeant! What the hell just happened here?"

"Sir, I'm not sure. We had assumed a tactical position here, oriented on the objective, when I noticed Jenkins there get a red circle and over that way Smitty turned a bit yellow."

LOL

I like the confusion of not knowing what the hell happened during the game, but I would appreciate if there were a better debriefing when the game ends.

Cheers,

Edit: c3k, can I use the above quote as my sig?

[MarkEzra]

The value of Replay button. No list of events will tell you what you REALLY need to know when you need to know it: "Who's doing the shootin'?"

[Chelco]

Hi Mark,

I don't play WEGO too much, but in RT I notice that a unit can be under fire from non-spotted enemy units for a considerable span of time. Mainly when the unit under fire is moving.

You mean replaying the turn and trying to see the muzzle flashes or smoke puffs (from RPGs)?

Also, sometimes the "Sir, we spotted an enemy unit" comes and no red icon can be seen for a while.

I like not knowing some of the enemy positions for a while as described above. IMHO adds a bit of realism into the game.

Cheers,

[panzermartin]

A flashing/changing color floating unit icon just when the supression bar is rising or unit has spotted enemies would be much helpful. A small log or minimap ala TOW would be nice too. Takes nothing away of realism and helps a lot to get into the battle. I still get the feeling that CMSF is a Real Time game with the interface of a turn based one.

[El Hombre]

I might have been the one suggesting a flashing icon of some sort.

Some kind of notification is definitely badly needed, especially in large maps, real time or WEGO.

There are two options, mainly: A visual notification of a flashing unit icon on the side of the screen, and/or a textual notification in some kind of a running log.

The problem there is basically how not to flood the user with redundant notifications, i.e. "when should we NOT notify the player?"

[c3k]

Chelco,

Thanks for asking, you are certainly welcome to use that as a sig!

Regards,

Ken

[LongLeftFlank]

A little "stock ticker" bar (semitransparent) is a pretty common feature in multiunit games. Mind you, in a firefight things tend to happen so fast that you can't always read this AND keep your eyes on the action. But you could always scroll back through the log when you're on Pause to see what happened.

0:42 Squad 3/A is taking fire

O:42 Squad 3/A is Cautious

O:44 Squad 3/A has taken a casualty

O:48 Squad 3/A is Pinned

[c3k]

LLF,

That's a neat idea. I'd settle for casualty notification. Although, status change would alert the player to changing conditions.

Vehicle hits/mobility degradation would also be nice to know about.

Thanks,

Ken

[LongLeftFlank]

Yeah, although "Iron Man" FOW players would probably also want an option to disable the ticker

(not me though, my infantry is still too stupid IMHO not to need constant pausing and micro on the attack).

[c3k]

LLF,

Hmmm, I can see it now:

"Sarge! We're taking incoming fire over here!"

The sergeant, a veteran of a dozen years, innumerable training scenarios, and several firefights over the last few weeks thinks to himself, "Yes, we are getting fired on. My squad has already taken 1 KIA and 2 WIA. I know I'm supposed to stay off the radio net unless it's something important. I wonder of the LT would think my guys being shot up is important? Nah, probably not. We'll just keep this as a 'let's keep it in the squad' kind of thing."

Is THAT what's supposed to happen?

Of course not. In combat, as soon as you take incoming, regardless of casualties, you yell it up the chain. If you don't know where it's coming from, so be it. You still send it up. This player interaction is missing.

Thanks,

Ken

[LongLeftFlank]

You're assuming the com net works well of course, which may or may not be true. Seem to recall there are still a lot of problems with this in Iraq even after 5 years there.

And of course in WWII you would get little to none of this except (sometimes) among vehicles.

[c3k]

LLF,

Well, if the comm net doesn't work, how are you, the PLAYER able to affect changes? I mean, you don't give one set of orders and then have to wait 30 minutes for runners to go back and forth in order to change what your units are doing.

I do not think this game should put you as battalion or company CO. If that were the case, you'd have a command and control sim with you staring at a blue force tracker screen and receiving radio calls.

In my opinion, this game puts you in charge as squad, platoon and company leader. With that outlook, being unaware of incoming fire, let alone casualties in my unit, does not make sense.

If you don't want something like that notification, perhaps it could be made a toggle?

Regards,

Ken

[Clavicula_Nox]

Originally posted by LongLeftFlank:

You're assuming the com net works well of course, which may or may not be true. Seem to recall there are still a lot of problems with this in Iraq even after 5 years there.

And of course in WWII you would get little to none of this except (sometimes) among vehicles.

I'm not aware of any major problems with ICOMs, especially not as of now. Back in the day, Circa 2004-05 and a little after, many soldiers opted to purchase their own vest-mounted "walkie-talkies" and what-not. As things stand now, infantrymen and special operations forces *generally* don't have this problem anymore.

[-E]

Originally posted by c3k:

"Sergeant! What the hell just happened here?"

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

S.I.W.'s

[c3k]

A shameless BUMP!

Why? Because in v1.08 I finished a WEGO turn, THEN I noticed a burning Stryker and one which had been immobilized due to flat tires.

Apparently it had occurred several turns previously, based on the positions the surviving crews had managed to take.

Sure, I'm a bad CO for not noticing it for a while, but wouldn't SOMEBODY have let me know that vehicles were taking damage or being destroyed?

A script at the top, similar to reinforcement or objectives, stating "Casualties" or "Vehicle Damage" accompanied by the sound effect of the break in squelch would be outstanding.

Thanks,

Ken

[gibsonm]

Ken,

A while ago I suggested in another place that we use the "vacant" black space either side of the information area at the bottom of the screen for this sort of thing.

My idea was a scrolling box on the left with comments a bit like the "chat" feature but using radio traffic (e.g. "contact Infantry wait out," "Contact at Grid 12345678", etc.). It would scroll as new information arrived to keep you current. This would be accompanied by the squelch sound for each message received.

On the right a small overall map with say a flashing red dot indicating where the contact was.

As far as I know its still being considered.

[c3k]

Good idea. I use a widescreen format (1920x1600) so my blank spaces are large.

Of course, how slick would it be to be able to click on a scrollable radio traffic chat window, as you describe, and have the camera snap to the unit and, in WEGO, rewind to a point 2 or 3 seconds prior to the event?

I did not know this was even being considered by BF.C. If so, that's good news.

Thanks,

Ken

[gibsonm]

Ken,

Well I'm not sure it would go that far.

My initial suggestion was to just keep it generic as things like a Grid reference is pretty useless if you don't have a map with Northings and Eastings on it.

Similarly the idea of the "locality map" / "Battle Map" would be hard too as, AFAIK, there is no easy linkage between building a map and automatically generating this smaller version.

Now maybe with the set of QB's miniatures could be made, but people building their own maps or if some sort of random map generator ever arrived I think it just wouldn't happen.

[Pandur]

personaly i dont see any problem here. even me playing in WEGO takes casualties in some odd places now and than with me discovering it 3 turns later. i think "what the...!?"

but in the end that p-nuts, i couldnt care less about such incidents. i let em do the medic and carry on manageing the important guys.

however, i just come in to say that i dont want the battlefield to become a sea of flashing unit icons when i lock one and a hlaf companys into battle on both sides. that would be redicoulous.

[gibsonm]

You do know you can turn the icons off?

I never have them on.