Cpl Steiner Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Hi, I was replaying the Task Force Thunder campaign under v1.04 and had to create a breach in a concrete wall. I ordered the three MGS Strykers to area fire at the section of wall I wanted dropping. For ages, they just machine-gunned it. I mean, what the hell is the point of that? There obviously weren't any enemy there, so the AI should have been able to figure out that I wanted to knock the wall down. In CMx1 when you did area fire with a gun-equipped vehicle, you were prompted if you wanted to use the Main Gun. If not, the area was just machine-gunned, otherwise the vehicle would bombard the area throughout the 60 second turn. If you ask me, we need this option putting back in for CMx2. I cannot for the life of me understand why it was regarded as no longer necessary for CMx2 when it so clearly is. Oh, and one more request. If I area fire a wall I expect the vehicle to stop firing the main gun as soon as the wall collapses. In the game I played, when I finally persuaded the MGS Strykers to fire their main armament, they continued to crater the ground, wasting valuable ammunition, long after the wall had gone. [ October 06, 2007, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: Cpl Steiner ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Originally posted by Cpl Steiner: Hi, I was replaying the Task Force Thunder campaign under v1.04 and had to create a breach in a concrete wall. I ordered the three MGS Strykers to area fire at the section of wall I wanted dropping. For ages, they just machine-gunned it. I mean, what the hell is the point of that? There obviously weren't any enemy there, so the AI should have been able to figure out that I wanted to knock the wall down. In CMx1 when you did area fire with a gun-equipped vehicle, you were prompted if you wanted to use the Main Gun. If not, the area was just machine-gunned, otherwise the vehicle would bombard the area throughout the 60 second turn. If you ask me, we need this option putting back in for CMx2. I cannot for the life of me understand why it was regarded as no longer necessary for CMx2 when it so clearly is. Oh, and one more request. If I area fire a wall I expect the vehicle to stop firing the main gun as soon as the wall collapses. In the game I played, when I finally persuaded the MGS Strykers to fire their main armament, they continued to crater the ground, wasting valuable ammunition, long after the wall had gone. I agree, but think it should be target and target light. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Originally posted by Cpl Steiner: Oh, and one more request. If I area fire a wall I expect the vehicle to stop firing the main gun as soon as the wall collapses. In the game I played, when I finally persuaded the MGS Strykers to fire their main armament, they continued to crater the ground, wasting valuable ammunition, long after the wall had gone. Hi Cpl Steiner, I'm assuming your playing RT? Did you try to pause and cancel the command by using the "Instant Commands" middle button which will cancel all orders for that selected unit after the wall came down? If you did and it still kept firing then thats something that needs to be check. Thanks. JohnO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 A Stryker MGS have less than 10 HE rounds, so the TACAI keeps the gun ROF as slow as possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 JohnO, I was playing WEGO to see how much improved it was in v1.04. Thus, once the wall collapsed, I had to sit there and watch the vehicle waste half its ammo on empty sand! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Thanks Cpl Steiner. Will make sure it gets posted in the Skunkworks. Can I get the file if possibly. I'm not doubting you but want to see and make a post in the Projects. Send to josborne6atkc.rr.com also make sure you have CM:SF in the subject line. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 JohnO, I don't have a file I'm afraid. If you need one I will run the scenario again and try to duplicate it but there are no guarantees. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 No thats ok, I can run through TF Thunder scenario and see. Will get back later on what happen. After I have my rum and coke for lunch Thanks though, JohnO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntarr Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 That was discussed and was noted for 1.05 It's in Projects 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Ok, thanks Huntarr, I can go back to drinking my rum and coke for lunch then JohnO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntarr Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 FIREMISSION...JohnO...skunkworks...bumped 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hev Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 we definitely need a way to fire the auro cannon on the bradly at some infantry with out worrying about it launching a tow!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molotov_billy Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I'd personally love to see a more robust UI for firing specific weapons - not just "target" and "target light", as they do not cover all weapon systems and occasionally do not work as expected. For example - say I want to put an AT4 somewhere, and only an AT4. Click the AT4 icon in the squad area, click the target, bam. Same for Javelins, main cannons, TOW's, etc. I've especially found it difficult to get the bradley to fire it's TOW into buildings. Hopefully more improvements in this area are on the way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 This is a problem in CMx1 as well. The "use main gun" behavior is no different than the current Target and Target Light behavior. The difference, from a UI standpoint, is that in CMx1 you chose a generic Target Command and then had to choose EVERY TIME if you wanted to use the main gun. In CMx2 you choose Target Light for the exceptional times when you don't want to use the main gun. From a clicking/speed standpoint, the CMx2 system is superior to CMx1 and yet yields the same behavior. Having said that, there are two problems with the current system that we've been tussling with. CMx1 had two things that CMx2 doesn't: 1. 60 second turns, no RT option. Meaning, the game prompted you to revisit your orders every 60 seconds. Sure, you could forget to cancel an Area Fire order (I did it all the time ), but the game did inherently give you a reminder to reassess and cancel if need be. 2. Rates of fire were MUCH slower back in WWII days. This means that in 60 seconds a WWII vehicle rarely cracked off more than a few shots (big guns) or a half dozen (small guns). Since it usually took a few seconds to start the Area Fire generally you only saw a couple of shots fired in one turn. And the bigger vehicles, with the more limited ammo (ISU-152 and Sturmtiger for example) had VERY slow rates of fire so they generally couldn't crack off more than 1-2 shots a turn no matter how quickly they went at it. When playing CM:SF with a high RoF vehicle and low ammo... there is a problem for sure. The MGS is the "worst" one of the bunch. That sucker has only a few rounds and can pump them out VERY fast. If you're playing WeGo it isn't so bad as when playing RealTime, simply because #1 (as explained above) still applies. We are looking into a cleaner way to do Area Fire in general. We also have a couple of ideas for how to get Squads to fire off their very limited heavy AT weapons at non-AT targets when the TacAI might otherwise not use them. Neither of these are quick fixes so I can't say when they will be implemented. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarceloFalcon Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 About the Stryker MGS... I noticed something... it has a 3 man crew right? Commander, Driver, Gunner. As soon as you order area fire the gunner trains the turret on the target, hits it with a 105mm round and then starts using the machine-gun. If you don't cancel the target order he just keeps hitting it with the machine-gun and you'll realise that the 105mm main gun never reloads. Now, if you cancel the order, just a few seconds later the 105mm gets reloaded and if you target again, he fires another main gun round. I came to the following conclusion? I don't know whether it's a but or meant to be this way (I know nothing about the Stryker and its variants other than the little I learnt playing CM:SF), but it seems to me that the Gunner in the MGS is in charge of reloading the main-gun, and firing the machine-gun... so when busy at one thing, he can't do the other. Uh, I guess that's what I have to report. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 MarceloFalcon, I think the MGS uses an auto-loader, a mechanical device to automatically chamber the next shell. Hence, a human loader would be superfluous to the system. Steve, Glad to hear that the problem is recognized and fixes are being considered. Thanks. Anyone, Why does the MGS carry so few rounds anyway? it seems like a crazy weapons system. Perhaps the number it can fire during a game is only a fraction of what it actually carries, but the crew need to prepare the shells for use. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntarr Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 The Stryker Mobile Gun System can fire 18 rounds of 105-mm main gun ammunition; 400 rounds of .50 caliber ammunition; and 3,400 rounds of 7.62-mm ammunition 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1A1TC Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 M1A1 gunner has a switch between coax MG and main gun. He cant fire both at the same time. One time I forgat to switch from main gun to coax while engaging infantry targets, and blew one in small chunks with SABOT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunwinglow Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Quickest way to unload the main gun so he could load HE, maybe.... Tim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 Originally posted by M1A1TankCommander: M1A1 gunner has a switch between coax MG and main gun. He cant fire both at the same time. One time I forgat to switch from main gun to coax while engaging infantry targets, and blew one in small chunks with SABOT Christ, some of the people I meet on this forum are kind of scary. Sometimes I feel like I'm in some sort of mass PTSD discussion group. As a civilian I suppose it's just hard to imagine that many of the posters on this forum do this sort of stuff for real! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zemke Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: 2. Rates of fire were MUCH slower back in WWII days. This means that in 60 seconds a WWII vehicle rarely cracked off more than a few shots (big guns) or a half dozen (small guns). Steve If you are talking about cannon fire, you are correct. However in WWII certain crew served weapons had the same or higher ROF, for example the M2 .50cal used today is exactly the same used in WWII and the German MG42 had a much higher ROF that any medium MG used by the US today. Several European Armies use a copy of the MG42. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I think Steve meant guns as in cannons, not MG. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie901 Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 I HOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE!!!!! I'm sick and tired of seeing my M1A1's Firing thier MSG's at a building in AREA FIRE mode when an emeny squad has occupied the building and their obviously immune to the MG fire...??? DOH.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flanker15 Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Still holding out for an additional "Target weapon" command where you choose to use one weapon to be used (and which ammo to be used). Think of how useful it would be to be able to fire an RPG at a APC without having all the units engage or as above firing HE shells at a building. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 Originally posted by Flanker15: Still holding out for an additional "Target weapon" command where you choose to use one weapon to be used (and which ammo to be used). Think of how useful it would be to be able to fire an RPG at a APC without having all the units engage or as above firing HE shells at a building. Yes it is the "little things" that effect CM:SF's play ability in a great way. I am pleased to hear that Steve and crew have a few ideas to try and improve this in the future. I wonder if they will patch them in or add them with the next module. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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