WEGO, RT and the blue bar that gets no lovin'...

[ParaBellum]

...anymore.

After a longish break from CM:SF because of a number of reasons I played a scenario again this evening. And within moments I again stumbled over the main reason why I'm not enjoying CM:SF the way I did BO/BB/AK. No, it's not the AI. No, it's not the LOS/LOF issues. No, it's not the broken QB generator or the lack of a "buyable" force. It's not even the scenario. (Ok, I lied a bit about the last point...)

It's those little buttons on the lower right corner of the screen that control the playback of the action. At least that's what they should do.

The current implementation of WEGO sucks. It truly does. The idea of having to watch the entire 60 second turn without being able to stop, rewind and replay the action is IMHO the worst design decision of CM:SF. WEGO in CM:SF feels so much more cumbersome than CMx1 that for me it's really not much fun playing that way.

So, it'S RT play. Which also sucks because I simply can't effectively control more than a handful of units, especially in MOUT battles. Constantly having to pause the game in order to not miss anything important (and still miss something all the time) simply sucks.

The beauty of CMx1 gameplay was that I could speed up time in the initial turns of a game when all units would slowly move to contact, then really concentrate on my troops once the action got going. Yes, I watched my tanks fire in level 1 view. Yes, I watched arty bombardements from the enemy's view. Two times. At least. Yes, I watched a tank slowly crest a hill, then rewound the action and watched two infantry squads cross an opening a mile away. The beauty of CM for me has always been sitting next to an AT gun, watching the shell arc towards its target. I simply cannot do all this in RT mode because watching a single squad deploy for half a minute could mean me not even noticing losing two Stryker thingies to some RPG-thingies.

I long for that blue bar representing the system calculating the turn. I really do. I don't know what that poor bugger did to anyone to get him axed.

Since that blue bar seems to have been gone forever, I'd like to ask if it would be possible to get a rewind feature for RT-Mode? Just let me stop the action whenever I want and replay the last 10 seconds. I would KILL for such a feature. Ok, probably not kill, but severely hurt someone. Preferably Dorosh. Or sum Aussie.

[ December 02, 2007, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: ParaBellum ]

[DaveDash]

Maybe I'm not getting something here, but you can rewind quite happily in WEGO in CM:SF and replay the action to your hearts content.

You just have to wait for the "review the action" phase to finish before you can rewind etc.

[ParaBellum]

Originally posted by DaveDash:

Maybe I'm not getting something here, but you can rewind quite happily in WEGO in CM:SF and replay the action to your hearts content.

You just have to wait for the "review the action" phase to finish before you can rewind etc.

Yes, and as I have tried to point out, I simply hate that. I really do, my preciousss... It might seem like a minor point, but having to watch a full turn basically in real-time before I can finally rewind scenes sucks. It's not CM WEGO anymore. It doesn't feel like it, it doesn't play like it. I don't like it.

[Sirocco]

Rewind would be a huge step forward. I think Steve mentioned he likes the idea, but whether or not that can be done for CMx2:WW2 I don't think was decided.

[DaveDash]

I you think a game sucks based on something like that, then christ almighty. No one can help you.

I think the ONLY reason the 'blue bar' system would be better is because the game then could actually use a big chunk of processing power to precalculate what happens in a much smarter manner. This would enable room for real LOS calculations and so forth instead of the shortcutting they have done. Then of course there would be no real time play either.

[thewood]

Originally posted by DaveDash:

I think the ONLY reason the 'blue bar' system would be better is because the game then could actually use a big chunk of processing power to precalculate what happens in a much smarter manner. This would enable room for real LOS calculations and so forth instead of the shortcutting they have done. Then of course there would be no real time play either.

Well said. I been trying to think how to say that.

[H.W. Guderian]

Originally posted by ParaBellum:

Or sum Aussie.

Oi! Watch it bub! =)

I do share your pain (not at your level of passion however).

Did I hear someone else above say something like:

"Toss out RT - get 1:1 LOS / LOF calculations?"

I'd pay double for a game WITHOUT RT and WITHOUT much of the LOS / LOF abstractions.

[ParaBellum]

Do not get me wrong, I doubt we'll ever see the blue bar again, exactly for the reason that the apparently oh-so important real-time feature seems to be the core design of the game.

I even understand that WEGO got somehow reduced to the ugly bastard child of mighty RT. The whole design of orders (-> waypoints implementation) and the lack of order delays as in CMx1 clearly prove that the game has been designed with RT mode as THE mode of play. Since the current state of WEGO simply doesn't do it for me (and actually quite a few people I know), I'd simply like to see some way to effectively control my units in RT, that is, give me a replay mode, even if only a couple of seconds, in RT mode.

[JonS]

Can't you just imagine that the first play through of each turn is the blue bar growing for 60 seconds, instead of something interesting to watch? :confused:

[ParaBellum]

I tried that. And after several turns started to wonder why I didn't play CMBB/AK instead, where the blue bar is a matter of 1-10 seconds and after that the game lets me rewind/replay to my heart's content. AND let me use many of the features that were so helpful in CMx1 but somehow are missing in CM:SF.

I'd actually prefer RT in CM:SF. If I could just rewind the action.

[C'Rogers]

You know it seems silly, but the reason I stopped playing WEGO was because of the fact I had to watch the first 60 seconds. I generally ran through the first ten turns in a game of CMx1. Fortunately I didn't have an issue with real time.

[ParaBellum]

Originally posted by C'Rogers:

You know it seems silly, but the reason I stopped playing WEGO was because of the fact I had to watch the first 60 seconds. I generally ran through the first ten turns in a game of CMx1. Fortunately I didn't have an issue with real time.

Doesn't sound silly to me at all. In fact it's exactly what I feel about CM:SF WEGO.

[SlapHappy]

Originally posted by H.W. Guderian:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ParaBellum:

Or sum Aussie.

Oi! Watch it bub! =)

I do share your pain (not at your level of passion however).

Did I hear someone else above say something like:

"Toss out RT - get 1:1 LOS / LOF calculations?"

I'd pay double for a game WITHOUT RT and WITHOUT much of the LOS / LOF abstractions. </font>

[SlapHappy]

Oh, and DaveDash too, above...sorry

[hoolaman]

Originally posted by ParaBellum:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by C'Rogers:

You know it seems silly, but the reason I stopped playing WEGO was because of the fact I had to watch the first 60 seconds. I generally ran through the first ten turns in a game of CMx1. Fortunately I didn't have an issue with real time.

Doesn't sound silly to me at all. In fact it's exactly what I feel about CM:SF WEGO. </font>

[Omenowl]

I tend to agree with the complaint. I would love to have a speed or time bar to determine what is going on. They have it for a few other games to speed up the action. A 4x or an 8x would be plenty (as long as you could keep it like that during the processing phase). With a fast computer it takes only a few seconds for all the processing.

[Thomm]

I have not even tried to play WeGo so far.

Real time is just so much faster and more convenient!

But, as stated before: everything that is good for WeGo is good for real time (if not the other way round), so I hope WeGo stays in and will be improved!

Best regards,

Thomm

[Thomm]

Originally posted by ParaBellum:

... and the lack of order delays as in CMx1 clearly prove that the game has been designed with RT mode as THE mode of play.

That is a major point!

Without command delays I feel that paying attention to platoon cohesion is unnecessary. I generally do not pay all that much attention to HQ units unless they have some noticeable firepower ...

Somehow, a CM game without command delays is missing something ...

Best regards,

Thomm

[adultery]

the blue bar would mean that you could ditch all the LOS/LOF problems because every calculation that needed to be done could be done???

and no horsepower trying to do graphics as well??

then the replay could use all the horsepower to render the turn without bogging the CPU with work??

[Thomm]

Originally posted by Captain Adultery:

the blue bar would mean that you could ditch all the LOS/LOF problems because every calculation that needed to be done could be done???

For me, the current LOS/LOF problems are mostly bugs. Shooting through walls or terrain simply has 'bug' written all over it.

I am confident that these problems will be addressed by the next patch. After all, they seem to take their time this time.

Best regards,

Thomm

[c3k]

Sign me up on the "I agree with this" line.

Yeah, being FORCED to sit through the bastardized-WEGO (copyright) turns sucks. WHY do I have to wait 60 seconds before I gain control of the replay?

If I design a move-to-contact scenario with realistic parameters, it could take a friggin' half-hour of futile clicking before we have an engagement. In CMBB/BO/AK I could just select my desired endpoints (say, just behind the crest of a hill) and in a few clicks have my forces positioned for the assault. Or whatnot.

Yeah, it feels like WEGO (THE UNIQUE SIGNATURE OF THE CM SERIES WHICH WAS GROUNDBREAKING AND SET UP BF.C'S REPUTATION!!!!!!) has been ground underfoot and forgotten with a vengeance in exchange for the attempt at getting RT to suck in the tongue-pierced, tattooed, ecstasy-swallowing, 10 second attention span, if it feel good do it, twitch playing, demographically targeted, mass consumer appealing, volume over quality, made in China with extra lead, nipple-ringed, ADHD ritalin swallowing, euro spending, mad-Cow infected, inbred, indolent, lazy, and corrupt gamers market.

I feel better now.

Thanks,

Ken

[Thomm]

:eek:

[thewood]

Originally posted by c3k:

Sign me up on the "I agree with this" line.

Yeah, being FORCED to sit through the bastardized-WEGO (copyright) turns sucks. WHY do I have to wait 60 seconds before I gain control of the replay?

If I design a move-to-contact scenario with realistic parameters, it could take a friggin' half-hour of futile clicking before we have an engagement. In CMBB/BO/AK I could just select my desired endpoints (say, just behind the crest of a hill) and in a few clicks have my forces positioned for the assault. Or whatnot.

Yeah, it feels like WEGO (THE UNIQUE SIGNATURE OF THE CM SERIES WHICH WAS GROUNDBREAKING AND SET UP BF.C'S REPUTATION!!!!!!) has been ground underfoot and forgotten with a vengeance in exchange for the attempt at getting RT to suck in the tongue-pierced, tattooed, ecstasy-swallowing, 10 second attention span, if it feel good do it, twitch playing, demographically targeted, mass consumer appealing, volume over quality, made in China with extra lead, nipple-ringed, ADHD ritalin swallowing, euro spending, mad-Cow infected, inbred, indolent, lazy, and corrupt gamers market.

I feel better now.

Thanks,

Ken

The opinions in this post are not necessarily the opinions of all naysayers on the forum. (although we agree with the gist)

[Dirtweasle]

Enough grains of sand together you get a beach or a desert...

[bigmac1281]

I don't understand the problem here... Why is it such a bother that the review the action phase needs to play out once before you can replay it?

I usually have 2 or 3 points on the battlefield that I try to keep close watch on at any particular time. When I'm done inputing my orders, I go to one of them, and click end turn. Watch the review fully. Rewind to the start, go to position two, and watch it through again. Repeat for position 3.

I have no problem at all with the replay feature... What's all the hubbub?