unconventional solution for awkward UI

[Astolene]

This is just an idea that I have discovered works incredibly well for me.

I read somewhere of a person using a gamepad to play CM. I gave it a shot on CMSF. Works great!

Yes a gamepad, like in Playstation or X-box.

Use a gamepad w/lots of xtra buttons, like a Saitek P2900 or P990, and with programming software, at your fingertips are over 40 quick buttons--in theory you can double it w/the FPS shiftstate. The 2 left shoulder buttons are for shifting, giving every button at least 3 different Commands.

I'm using the POV/Digital pad as the W,A,S,D combo.

The left analog stick serves as camera look around: Q,E,up-key,down-key. And the right analog for the Mouse.

The right shoulder buttons for both Zoom in/out, Mouse Wheel up/Down.

The six regular buttons are arranged (w/shift funtions) for pause, giving orders, next unit, tab, etc.

And the analog buttons can be pushed for both the mouse buttons.

It is incredible and very intuitive. Moving around the battlefield now is quite natural.

Even if the UI is changed, I doubt I'll be able to stop using the gamepad. The weak point is only using the right analog for the mouse, since it takes a bit of getting used to.

Of course, you can program a gamepad for any comfortable config, and this is just a work-around.

I dont even touch the Keyboard/Mouse now. I can have CMSF on a huge projector on my wall, and lie back in my comfortable recliner and play away, grasping my gamepad feet from my computer!

You should really try it--for any game!

[ July 30, 2007, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Astolene ]

[Madmatt]

Thats actually similar to what I use at home. I have a full HOTAS rig with a CH-Pro Throttle, Rudder Pedals and FighterStick. With most FPS games I am so used to using the throttle with my left hand in my flight sims that I go ahead and remap all the various hat switches to be my movement and miscelaneous commands. My keyboard/mouse friends all think its weird that I use a throttle in shooters, but for me it works great.

There are also some good mini-keyboard type pads that people use (again fully mapable) for games like this. There is one called the Nostromo and I believe its big brother the Prometheous that are pretty cool where it basically mimics the entire left hand side of the keyboard (WASD and other keys).

Having said all of that, we are listening and working on some possible UI improvements for the future as well to better accomodate the various player desires in the UI department.

Madmatt

[Kozure]

Originally posted by Madmatt:

Having said all of that, we are listening and working on some possible UI improvements for the future as well to better accomodate the various player desires in the UI department.

Madmatt [/QB]

Oh thank you, thank you, thank you!

The "two-tier" tabbed command system is driving me crazy.

I consistently am mixing up move fast with area fire and having units firing on the spot I intended them to move to.

I haven't had the "bail out" issue that others have had, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

[Exel]

Does this mean BFC can release CMSF for the consoles for some big time $$? :cool:

[Joe Shaw]

Waht a clever idea ... I hadn't even considered that but I have both a Nostromo and a gamepad USB. That might be worth looking into.

Joe

[Phoenix]

Yep, Im planning on digging up my old Nostromo for this as well. Should be able to do all commands from it with the left hand and mousing with the right.

If anyone else has already set up a command file maybe it can be posted somewhere for downloading.

[Yskonyn]

Or you could just go the 'Blitzkrieg-way' for the lack of a better term.

Instead of using the hotkeys shown inside the order buttons you can also use the numpad to assign orders.

Use / and * to switch tabs and use the number-keys to give the appropriate order;

7,8,9 - top row

4,5,6 - middle row

1,2,3 - bottom row

Works like a charm! Quick, solid and memory proof!

(Credits go to Cheeba)

[SlowMotion]

If you could assign a keyboard shortcut for *ALL* commands, typing commands while playing would be much easier. People who find the current tabbed style easy could use it. People who like modeless commands could use the shortcuts.

With keyboard shortcuts you could also use things like voice commands like someone suggested. At least two SW packages are available.

[Kozure]

I just wish that "face" was on the same menu as "move".

[Tzen]

Astolene, did you have the keyboard input problem before you used the gamepad? If so, when you control WASD with the gamepad does it have the same issue?

[Astolene]

Tzen:

I never really had any keyboard problems. Yeah it seems a little less than smooth at times, but not very noticable. Gamepad POV/WASD functions identically as keyboard, so I doubt using the gamepad would improve the problems some are having with the keyboard.

The way I play, I stay almost always near ground level, just using my left thumb to turn, strafe, move, and look around. Seems like at that level, the game is extremely smooth.

I also am on pause most of the time, and maybe this helps with smoothing everything out more.

On a side note, someone please get rid of the oversized, massive "P A U S E D" right on the middle of the screen. It's like having a bunch of birdcrap right in the middle of my windshield.

Maybe I'm just not mentally fast enough for realtime, and I like things paused so I can run around looking at everything from a grunt's point of view, and that "P A U S E D" right in the middle sucks!

[Grumbling Grognard]

I don't play games that require a gamepad to be enjoyable.

[Becket]

Originally posted by Grumbling Grognard:

I don't play games that require a gamepad to be enjoyable.

How do you feel about Wiimotes?

[Astolene]

Never tried the Nostromo, but I think Saitek's version (Pro Gamer Command Unit) has more keys, more shift states, and is a little more flexible, according to some reviews I've read.

I tried it out on CMSF and it helps dramatically improve the UI--plus you can still use the mouse.

Only problem with Saitek gear is if you have Vista, you must use the beta drivers and beta programming software, which isn't as easy as the old XP versions.

Until we get a right-click UI (if ever), I'm going to have to stick with these little devices.

[Vinnart]

If you plan to play this Real Time a Notromo or equivalent is a MUST if you want to be super fast. I also recommend a mouse with programmable side buttons. I have played many multiplayer RTS games and I guarantee that specialty controllers like the Nostromo make a big difference in speed. Speed is a big key to winning when playing real time games. The Nostomo is very comfortable too. I rigged my with a strap so I can kick my legs up on the desk and strap it to my leg. The hotkeys are no problem now. Besides the game allows you to customize the hotkeys, which is a good touch. Like anything new it just takes a little patience and practic till it starts to feel natural. Many have said they request a right click menu as in CMAK, but I think that style might be a hinderence in real time play. Besides right clicks functions especially with the camera seem to work well as they are.

Like many I found the controls awkward at first. I think the main reason is that where the keyboard camera controls are awkward since most games have the main controls there. The number pad is not bad though if you want to use the keyboard.

Forget about the keyboard for controlling the camera. Use the mouse. The camera in this game is one of the best I have ever used. Other games usually do not give all the angles of view available like this one. Using this camera is a breeze, nice and smooth with holding the mouse buttons down. My only criticism is that camera positions 3 or above do not show the unit when view is locked on. I think CMAK was better in that you could see the unit when in positions 3,4 ect.. Hopefully the developers will fix this in a patch.

As stated above I also feel the face command feels more like it should be included with the movement commands. Since you can issue a face command at the beginning and end of a waypoint, I thought that the reason for this was to allow a tank to face the turret in that direction while on the move, but it doesn’t seem to work like that. I think it would be good if it did though as it would be a quick way of issuing a general covering arc. Perhaps one of the development team can chime in explaining why they put it where they did and it’s current uses?

[Battlefront.com]

Hey, pretty slick. Never thought of that!

Face is considered a Combat Command because of its core behavior. All Movement Commands actually move the unit along, the Combat Commands utlize Movement Waypoints (a unit's stationary position is a Waypoint as far as the system is concerned) to aim the unit in a direction to acheive some sort of goal. Targeting an enemy unit or facing it are the same behavior.

Steve