manchildstein (ii) Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 does this happen to anyone else? sometimes i'll be playing with 50 or so tanks and i know they're all about to come under fire. thus i button them all up, then in the following turn i hear that tell-tale noise and it sounds like half of them are unbuttoning... then i look again and a good number of them have taken crew casualties... if i would change one small thing about this game, it would be that if i button a tank up, it stays buttoned until ordered to unbutton... i just don't see the sense in my buttoning it, then it unbuttoning on its own, only to take a crew casualty to small arms fire or whatever... it's almost like i never get the full advantage of 5-man crews (3-man turrets) because a good half of them have taken crew casualties by the time the battle is entered in full... is this one area of cmbb where allowing player micromanagement might be good? thanks for your consideration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted December 16, 2002 Author Share Posted December 16, 2002 ??? i was trying to post about afv crews unbuttoning, only to take casualties from small arms... i guess we found a bug in the software or somefink... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted December 16, 2002 Author Share Posted December 16, 2002 whoa... for a second this thread was about mike the wino's halftrack question... i'm really trippin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 If you had buttoned up you wouldn't have this concussion from which you seem to be suffering. On topic, I agree completely. This has been discussed before, but I don't remember what BFC's response was, if any. Incidentally, I recently saw a program on TV where they interviewed several WWII tankers. One said they never completely buttoned up since they were virtually blind if they did so. He said at the most they left the hatches slightly cracked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istari Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Totally agree. Just playing one of the early-war operations and heard a Stuka fly overhead. Scattered my tanks into the trees and buttoned up the commanders. Next turn, I hear the howling siren of the Stuka and hear a "clang" as my BT-7 commander decides he needs some fresh air - WHAM. The Stuka bomb misses by 50-100m, the BT-7 is undamaged, but sure enough... TC casualty. Hope we can go back to CMBO where if you tell 'em to button, they stay buttoned! ;> Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrapin Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I agree to a point. But I think it's a playability issue. It wouldn't be good to button a tank, then totally forget about it (which seems HIGHLY likely) and watch the spotting/fire control go out the window, and people can then complain "my tanks can't see the T34 100 meters away!" At least their good at buttoning. I mean, it's instant. Had one hilarious movie replay that I watched numerous times,where my T34 was unbuttoned and driving through a field, when a hidden Stug opened fire on it from 1200 meters away. The round bounced off and ricocheted off the top of the T34, maybe 1 foot away from the head of the commander. He buttoned up FAST. Hilarious. There's a lot of things in the game that COULD be programmed, but aren't, due, IMHO, to avoiding massive player overload on micro-management. This is one of them. The problem is, some people WANT that micro-management, and I think this is why they're going with a SOP for the next engine. So you could say "if I order you to button, stay buttoned!" [ December 16, 2002, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Terrapin ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 My play experience is that the automatica unbuttoning could use some tuning. I just had some Panther commanders open their hatches while a full-scale shootout of one platoon of Panthers against two T-34-85 platoons was underway. His tank was not directly targetted at that precise instant, but tanks extremly nearby. Since the 1944 T-34/85 were shooting AP with large HE charges, the unbuttoned TC was killed by a hit on a nearby tank. In my opinion, the automatica unbuttoning should only happen if there is no impact anywhere near the tank for a minute. Or, alternativly, if this feature is really intended for people forgetting to unbutton, then unbutton only after all combat in a phase is over. That way the player can close it in the orders phase without a second exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSColonel_131st Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Ah, so it doesn't just happen to me? The StugIII I used yesterday kept buttoned up as I told him. However, I had 4 Panzer 38, and they would again, and again, and again open the hatch as soon as the turn started. I thought it was my error...obvisiously not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike the wino2 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Kinda irritating but makes sense. If you wanna see whats around you have to poke your head out. whoa... for a second this thread was about mike the wino's halftrack question... i'm really trippin' You think your tripping, I went away from comp to watch TV and now I can't even find that damned thread. Did I miss something? Locked or moved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted December 17, 2002 Author Share Posted December 17, 2002 as i was originally 'fulminating' over this 'problem,' 'that small still voice' was whispering, 'sop... someday sop'... perhaps if they did automatically stay buttoned then other problems would present themselves... it does seem odd to me though that as it is, i can be involved in a battle where it seems as though more than half of my (remaining) afvs have a crew casualty... anyway i guess it's not too big a deal... maybe just some small tweak is called for in 1.02... otherwise i suppose the answer is, 'wait for sop' mike the wino, you did have a thread, only from my view here it was posted under this title... and my original posting was gone... that's why i was wiggin'... after a few minutes this thread was 'normal' again and yours was apparently down the proverbial bit bucket... to try and answer your question... i think that whatever vehicles could be salvaged for further combat were... others were stripped for parts and left.. it was my understanding that wrecks left after the war were for the most part taken as scrap... you should probably re-start that thread if you want more answers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike the wino2 Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 thanks. I know this board is bit buggy and I thought I had just imagined posting. Then I checked my BAC..sober, that normally means when I think that I have done something I actually have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Well one of the real weaknesses of the AI in CMBO was that once a vehicle buttoned, it would stay that way. It really reduced the effectiveness of AI controlled AFVs, since they would become blind. In CMBB, my understanding is that buttoned AFVs are even more blind than in CMBO. At the same time, more automatic unbuttoning was added to the TacAI. I suppose that there might be some room for improvements with this new feature, but it is an area for which there is no clear cut "right answer". It is a balance between unbuttoning too easily and not unbuttoning easily enough. It may take a while to get the balance right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardaukar Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Staying buttoned was a problem in CMBO, it was easy to forget to unbutton tanks and suffer consequences. I like this auto-unbuttoning more, but maybe it could be toned a bit. Staying buttoned is not as bad problem for vehicles that have commander's cupola, but those without are quite blind. Cheers, M.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Perhaps it might be a good idea to have another command for buttoning 'Auto/Manual' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 I agree. I think it is a problem. If the TacAI buttoned the tank to begin with I don't have a problem with them unbuttoning it, but if the player buttons it should stay buttoned until the player unbuttons it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Has anyone noticed who stays buttoned and who doesn't? I'm of the (untested) opinion that the tanks with better optics stay buttoned longer. A Panther with vision blocks for the commander will stay buttoned longer than a blind-when-buttoned t34-76? Or is that just my imagination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 I also noted that Pz 38(t) unbutton very often. But then, I use them very often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engel Posted December 18, 2002 Share Posted December 18, 2002 Originally posted by MikeyD: Has anyone noticed who stays buttoned and who doesn't?From what I've seen, I think many Russian tanks, and assault guns on all sides tend to unbutton more often than tanks. Basically, the better vision the commander has when buttoned, the longer it will stay that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts