much more realistic, but is it more fun?

[desertrat1943]

I got my copy of CMBB. I played a couple of QB (plus, of course, playing the demo over and over during the long wait). Now, my question to you all gentlemen is: are we sure this is going to be more fun? CMBO was a perfectly balanced game that hooked me for more than two years through the PBEM option (no way I can play with any AI for that long). Is the miracle going to happen again (my wife ardently hopes not)? The risk is, in my opinion, that grognards took over enthusiastic players and that this will eventually alienate the loyal community of players who love stragetgy games but play also stuff like half-life, jedi knights etc., and which has kept the CMBO gig floating. :confused:

[Dirtweasle]

I'm no grog, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last year...

Is CMBB more fun? So far, yes.

Is "The Miracle" going to happen again? Hmm, my Jewish friends say it never happend. Oh the game experience? I think so. For instance - last night I played one of the scenarios, called looking for shelter, or come in from the cold, something like that. I was hooked when two of my little Mk IIIs bushwhacked a T-34! Great stuff.

My only reservation is I cannot get myself worked up playing the Russian side. To many years of Cold War propaganda I suppose. I happen to be in the monority of WWII gamers that prefers the Western Front. I do kind of like the, odd to me, weapons in the Russian TO&E... they have these crazy things that hurl little gas bombs, "ampuliers" or somefink, and little tankettes! what a hoot!! Very strange stuff.

Oh buy the game, heck you'd spend that much money in a couple hours out at the tavern Friday night anyway.

I have never played Half-Life, or Jedi Knights. The only other games on my HD at the moment are Airborne Assault, Capitalism II, and the new TacOps demo.

[ September 25, 2002, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Dirtweasle ]

[Mud]

EFOW + improved machine gun modelling + cheaper fortifications + less protection when moving + different rates of ammo use depending on proximity + prep barrages + ... improves the "feel" for me. And, where problems with realism penalized real-world rational play or promoted game-world-only play, I'd say the game has improved.

I don't find it as much "fun" when gameyness like using *winds to shred buildings (faster than SP guns!) or when MGs focus on individual squads without suppressing an area, and I'll likely be happier when the Mother of All Gaminess (borg spotting) is dealt with in the rewrite.

[Wreck]

Of course, the existence of BB does not negate that of BO, for people that like "attack of the clones" style infantry behavior. People can still play BO. But I cannot imagine any real historical buff or WWII grog wanting to stick with the BOrg infantry as versus the Better Behaved infantry.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Wreck:

Of course, the existence of BB does not negate that of BO, for people that like "attack of the clones" style infantry behavior. People can still play BO. But I cannot imagine any real historical buff or WWII grog wanting to stick with the BOrg infantry as versus the Better Behaved infantry.

VERY Witty Mr. Wreck!

I guess we can again, expect to see you at the top of the CMBB ladders??

-tom w

[spwaw]

>I got my copy of CMBB. I played a couple of QB>

Are you play with COPY,i hate you.It is a illegal do that.I will surrender and capture your units?

Stop that and keep asking your sefl,was it right:)

[LightningWar]

Got it on Monday. Not sure when Ill get home to play it.

But I think the realism will help a lot. CMBO was a great game. But it just seemed to easy for a perfectly placed arty drop to crush an enemy. To me the game just became an arty slugfest. Whoever scored the most hits won the game typically. I am hoping the arty is better in this version. I am also glad the MGs work better and surpress that uber infantry. Tanks with moral is a huge increase in realism over CMBO. Where a lone TD could stop an entire column of tanks and infantry if placed right.

But again without playing the game I cant say for sure if it is better. But it just seems like it should be

LW

[TSword]

Playing now is much more fun then with CMBO, because one has much much more possibilities in the kind of gameplay possible.

CMBO was nothing more then the entry drug, the real deal has now arrived with CMBB..hehe..

Let's be honest in CMBO battles followed always the same limited basic pattern with tree huging and arty against, in fact slow slugging matches, nothing elegant or exhilirating. Now things changed dramatically with better concealment possibilities for stationaries, no no brainer arty anymore, realistic tankgunnery (much improved longrange shooting and better hitprob at all ranges), lowered acuracy while moving. Now it's perfectly possible for a single AT-gun to knock out Heaps of enemy tanks (Only limit in my case was ammo). Speed and manouver will become a completely new meaning in tank vs. tank battle.

City-fighting is pure fun now and never did i felt this kind of excitment before in CMBO. A single 2-men team holding off a platoon whoohooo!!!. In general the attacker's life has been made a lot more difficult, exactly the way it should be. The days of only Meeting Engagments in Multiplayer are soon over....

Greets

Daniel

[Cameroon]

I've been having a lot more fun with CMBB than CMBO, and I loved CMBO. I'm also a gamer, not really a "wargammer".

In all honesty, I do not understand where the idea that "gamers" will like it less stems from. Yes, CMBB is more realistic. I don't see how that is inherently less fun than a game that is less realistic. Maybe I'm just dense

[Greenman]

I think everyone is hitting the learning curve of CMBB ... yeah, its different. But its every bit as fun as CMBO. Can you play the two games in the same way? No, but that doesn't mean that CMBB is any less appealing. And who would want the exact same features? Was CMBO fun because you could run infantry into the face of MG fire without consequence? No, it was fun becuase it was a complex, exciting wargaming challenge. CMBB is all the more so.

[Captain Wacky]

Armor battles are much improved. I had several Stugs on the end of a long road, and they quickly dispatched the t-34's that moved across it over 1000m meters away. The Stug's long range optics clearly gave them the edge over the t-34's, who had trouble hitting.

[Mannheim Tanker]

I finally got a chance to try it out (got my copy 2 days ago and didn't get to play until this morning). I tried out an assault scenario with the Uberfinns. I got bogged down by Russian MGs every time I tried to advance, and failed to reach the flag. After the game ended, I checked the map to find out which units were hurting my guys, expecting to find lots of HMGs and AT guns. To my horror discovered that LMGs and antitank guns strategically placed to suppress entire axes of advance were the culprits! :eek:

Splendid!

The MG improvements alone make CMBB a great game for me. Great job BFC!

[Bruno Weiss]

You mean it really is fun. Whew, I was worried there for a minute.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

Desertrat1943 is very honest in saying that he is a strategy game fan. BTS will speak for themselves, but as I view the game it is the stunning, world beating realisms of the modelling, plus, the use of great graphics, sounds, interface and such, that makes CM games the hits they are.

There is no doubt about it, CMBB is a great game, but also a very fine work of military history, easily on the scale of a big item David Glantz book. For me the realism of the modelling is a necessary condition for buying the game. I play no other computer games because they do not come up to standard. I own a number of games used by the US military, but they are no quite as realistic as CM, strange but true. (I have a lot of respect for TacOps and Steel Beasts.)

What desertrat1943 seems to be saying is that “the grogs have taken over the asylum”. Happily for me, there are no two greater grogs than Steve and Charles, so the asylum was always owned by grogs anyway.

All the best,

Kip.

[aka_tom_w]

see this thread for more on this topic

Gamey CMBO vs. Realistic CMBB

-tom w

[ September 25, 2002, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[StellarRat]

CMBB is more fun for me then CMBO because of the increased realism. Is it more fun then going from the other wargames available at the time CMBO was released to CMBO? No. That first jump from regular wargames to BTS games was incredible. So far, I haven't seen anything that rivals CMBO yet and BFC is already a generation ahead of that with CMBB!

[Tarquelne]

[QUTOE]The risk is... that grognards took over... this will eventually alienate the loyal community of players who love stragetgy games but... play also stuff like half-life...etc.

[Thraka]

Originally posted by Dirtweasle:

I'm no grog, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last year...

Is CMBB more fun? So far, yes.

Is "The Miracle" going to happen again? Hmm, my Jewish friends say it never happend. Oh the game experience? I think so. For instance - last night I played one of the scenarios, called looking for shelter, or come in from the cold, something like that. I was hooked when two of my little Mk IIIs bushwhacked a T-34! Great stuff.

My only reservation is I cannot get myself worked up playing the Russian side. To many years of Cold War propaganda I suppose. I happen to be in the monority of WWII gamers that prefers the Western Front. I do kind of like the, odd to me, weapons in the Russian TO&E... they have these crazy things that hurl little gas bombs, "ampuliers" or somefink, and little tankettes! what a hoot!! Very strange stuff.

Oh buy the game, heck you'd spend that much money in a couple hours out at the tavern Friday night anyway.

I have never played Half-Life, or Jedi Knights. The only other games on my HD at the moment are Airborne Assault, Capitalism II, and the new TacOps demo.

I too prefer the Western Front. I dont have much understanding of Russian weaponry. I did by a nice picture book of all the tanks of ww2 that have lots of statistics and info about each tank. Even a Japanese one!

I cant wait for CM2 strictly for the western front (I hope it's based on that) and the full game replay mode.

[imported_Hiram Sedai]

Is it more fun? Are big bootied women to be admired? You betcha!! I have been chuckling and making yummy noises for the last two days now. The planes and the tanks and the infantry and the artillery...it has been a feast for my senses.

I still need to shower though.

[Doug Beman]

Originally posted by Hiram Sedai:

Is it more fun? Are big bootied women to be admired? You betcha!! I have been chuckling and making yummy noises for the last two days now. The planes and the tanks and the infantry and the artillery...it has been a feast for my senses.

I still need to shower though.

You sappy, smelly bastard.

DjB

[Suvorov]

The Eastern Front was the most intense action of WWII and one of the most interesting if not the most imo. Anyone who is unfamilar with it is doing themselves a favour by learning more about it! Beyond that, imo I think in terms of CM, the forces are at the same time more balanced and more disseperate (needing different tactics). Some might disagree, but I always felt the germans with equal point layout always had a slight but significant advantage in CMBO quick battles due to their superior armour. Russian tanks on the other hand are quite potent...

[deanco]

This is kinda my pet topic as I've always thought that CM and the wego system could appeal to a larger segment of the gaming public than just wargamers.

I see 3 main "barriers to entry" here for the guy who usually plays Warcraft but wants something deeper.

1) Graphics. I think CMBB has made leaps and strides over CMBO. The texture work is excellent. Gone are the flourescent grass textures, the funky half spheres when a tank fires, and the squeaky clean tanks of unmodded CMBO. The doodads add interest and break up the landscape. It really looks like a pro package this time, straight out of the box. While not on the level of some recent games, the graphics are no longer an automatic putoff. Score one for CMBB.

2) The 'Rules' (Thanks Tarqulene). CMBB is more complex, yes, but it's not necessary to master every command to get a Minor Victory. One of CM's strong points is it's mouse driven interface, it's as pick-up-and-play as a complex game can get. So I don't think it's *such* a negative factor. My main barrier to entry is...

3) The Units: There's too many of 'em (and it's WWII's fault, not Steve's ), and the differences between them to the untrained eye are *still* too hard to understand. CMBO already had a lot, but it was *just* manageable. The strategy gamer needs to know 'what can kill what?' and 'how good is it at killing?' (or defending, moving, etc.) And he needs it clearly presented. Yes I know all that stuff is in the interface somewhere, but it's not coming across in a 'gamey' manner, you need to be a wargamer to understand it. (To be fair, the tank armor color coding is a welcome step in that direction.)

So graphics: BIG plus. Too many units: possible minus. Voilà.

[aka_tom_w]

"3) The Units: There's too many of 'em (and it's WWII's fault, not Steve's ), and the differences between them to the untrained eye are *still* too hard to understand. CMBO already had a lot, but it was *just* manageable. The strategy gamer needs to know 'what can kill what?' and 'how good is it at killing?' (or defending, moving, etc.) And he needs it clearly presented. Yes I know all that stuff is in the interface somewhere, but it's not coming across in a 'gamey' manner, you need to be a wargamer to understand it. (To be fair, the tank armor color coding is a welcome step in that direction.)

So graphics: BIG plus. Too many units: possible minus. Voilà."

I have not received the game yet

BUT I would agree with that one.

Knowing "What Kills What" is one of the most important aspects of knowing how to "beat the system" and win in the gamey video game gameing, RTS sort Warcraft mentality, of video gaming IMHO . SO CMBB presents a REAL challenge there.

But its my bet the nothing will change , or should change in this respect because, as was pointed out above, these units are ALL historically accurate which is what this game is ALL about!

-tom w

[ September 25, 2002, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Battlefront]

Hmmm... well as for the "what kills what"... there will be a CMBB strategy guide! :cool:

Charles

[Horus]

CMBB Strat Guide ? where - plz tell me more about it

tonight i had my first cmbb tcp game , was a draw and only why my MGs had worked fine with the surpression fire

so BFC thx for this game i see there is much more to learn and explore with cmbb and that is a point that i always like on go(o)d Games