John Kettler Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 The hill being discussed which had such a dominant, bitterly contested view of Stalingrad was Mamayev Kurgan. As for grain silos being in the game, what ACTOR told us at the sneak preview was that there weren't any. Personally, I'm hoping there will be by release, together with the also confirmed as missing smokestacks. It seems strange to me that BFC would go to all the trouble of giving us factories, but not their towering smokestacks, so often used for OPs. As for fortified houses and apartment blocks, the subject didn't come up, but I'm hoping they're in, since such positions are a virtually mandatory fixture of streetfights from Stalingrad on. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNac Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 It couldn´t be bombed to hell? If not, it must be scary and really big! Any photos of it? I´ve never seen any [ July 27, 2002, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: KNac ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 Originally posted by dizee: over here in hamburg there are still many of those airraid bunkers.they are so incredibly tough that they havnt been torn down after the war, and are now used for lotsa different stuff like the most impressive bunker in hamburg: the former air defence center.its a fkn huge concrete monster over at the heiligengeistfeld. with 4 big platforms on top of it, you can exactly see where the 4 big 128mm twin flakguns stood.its a mediacenter now with lots of advertise agencys, photographer studios and so on.its kinda strange feeling when ur walking up those steps, when u know that 60 years ago on the very same spot young ppl hurried upwards to man their guns, or when ur driving with the elevator wich was used to transport the heaps of ammo for the guns.Hey Dizee. I got the shock of a lifetime when I saw that monster right in the middle of Hamburg. As you said the platforms around the top make it especially ugly. I was amazed to see that they're actually using it. I guess it would be even more ghoulish to leave a big block of concrete like that standing empty in the middle of town though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 Originally posted by Sgt_Kelly: ... I was amazed to see that they're actually using it. ...Several AA towers in Vienna, too! At the south face of one of them they installed a 35 m climbing wall with a horizontal 4 m roof at the top! In the middle of the city! Pretty nice view from up there, also! Regards, Thomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakthrough Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 I have read a similar account of the Grain Silo. I think it could well be compared to one of those medieval Keeps that were impossible to breach or approach without taking withering fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 Originally posted by Andreas: You live in Mannheim? We should go for a drink when I visit my parents in Worms next. W00T a small world thread, I used to live and work in Darmstadt, went to see the Stones and the Who in Mannheim. To keep it on topic, there's a photo of the grain silo at this French site . The text is in French, but I'll translate the prophetic quote from the German soldier's diary 'If all the buildings in Stalingrad are defended like this, none of our soldiers will return to Germany'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 Originally posted by Firefly: ]W00T a small world thread, I used to live and work in Darmstadt, went to see the Stones and the Who in Mannheim.And today you could have attended the 2nd London CMBB Preview in Forest Hill. Look what you could have won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 Originally posted by Firefly: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andreas: You live in Mannheim? We should go for a drink when I visit my parents in Worms next. W00T a small world thread, I used to live and work in Darmstadt, went to see the Stones and the Who in Mannheim. To keep it on topic, there's a photo of the grain silo at this French site . The text is in French, but I'll translate the prophetic quote from the German soldier's diary 'If all the buildings in Stalingrad are defended like this, none of our soldiers will return to Germany'.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heibis Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 Now if you look at the http://www.chez.com/barbarossa/his2.html , that's a real story for you all! Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 Google Translation: History of the "Match of death" Dynamo Kiev - Ukraine - August 9, 1942 Monument located vis-a-vis the stage of the Dynamo in Kiev. Dedicated to the players carried out with Babi Yar. Ivan Kuzmenko Mykola Trusevich Olexiy Klimenko Mykola Korotkikh The legend... In the years which preceded the war, the Dynamo was regarded as one of the best teams of football of Europe. And when in summer 1941, the greatest battle of movement of the History (665.000 prisoners) finishes, the players find themselves them also encircled in the pocket. One day of the summer 1942, appeared posters in the streets of Kiev, posters announcing: Sunday Sunday 9 9 August August STAGE "ZENITH" street kerossinna, 24 FOOTBALL REVENGE STAR FLAKELF Troussevitch Tchervegui Klimenko Komarov Svirizovsky Korotkikh Soukharev Poutistin Balakin Melnik Goundarev Timoféev Gontcharenko Tuttchev SELECTION RENFORCEE beginning of the match with 5 H price of the ticket 5 roubles The day arrived, half of the stage occupied by official German, of which the commander of the place in person, the Major general Eberhardt, secondary places being left for the local population. The match began with a Soviet team timorée and hesitant vis-a-vis an aggressive German team and quickly the first German goal was registered. The public ukrainien supported that in a fatalistic silence but that galvanized the team of the Dynamo which registers two goals before the end of the half-time. The German public then started to insult the local team and to even draw from the shots in the air, asking for the stop of the match. During the pause, the commander of the place came in the cloakroom from the team from Kiev and announced: " Well, you practised an excellent play and we appreciated. Only now, during second half, you will have to lose. You owe it! The team of the German armed forces never lost, especially in occupied territories. It is an order, if you do not lose, you will be cut down... " The players of the Dynamo listened in silence and took again the play in... registering a new goal. At the 4 2nd goal, the guards were placed around the lawn and formed a cord of safety. With the fifth and last goal, that was too much, the official delegation left the stage and the referee stopped the meeting before his term. The guards led, with blows of stick, the players in trucks. The players were carried out this same day with Baby Yar. An extremely rare photograph of the participants of the match from August 9, 1942 in Kiev, catch, according to certain information, by the referee of the meeting and preserved in the file of the I.Konontchuk journalist. The footballers ukrainiens are in dark shirts, German - in clear shirts. One recognizes Mr. GONTCHARENKO easily (in the second rank, first on the right), Nicolaï TROUSSEVITCH, Ivan KUZMENKO (in the same row cinquème and sixth on the left). The historian of football V VOLKOV recognized in second rank G.TIMOFEEV (third on the left), F TUTTCHEV, V.SOUKHAREV and N KOROTKIKH (beside GONTCHARENKO, of right-hand side on the left), A. KLIMENKO (eighth on the right) and placed derière him P. KOMOROV. In the row of bottom - Mr. MELNIK (second on the left) and Mr. POUTISTIN (in the center without shirt). In fact this is a legend, reality was different but can be even more incredible... A first team of the German Army was beaten on July 12, 1942. German was very désappointés but no arrest took place then. They chose to organize another match with a stronger team. July 17, the Dynamo gained this match 6-0! German then chose a Hungarian team, then famous for its play, to play on July 19. She lost this match 5-1. To note a line of the report/ratio of this match: " In spite of the score, the teams can be considered of force equal "... A return match organized by the Hungarian woman finished by a new victory of the Dynamo on 3-2 July 26, 1942. August 6, 1942, was organized a match against the team of Luftwaffe. it is this match which, describes higher, entered the legend. But that Ci does not end in the execution of the players of the ukrainienne team. One needed a new victory on August 9 over this same team and a last humiliation (8-0!) August 16, 1942 so that this team enters the History. According to versions', Four players were carried out: Ivan Kuzmenko, Mykola Trusevich, Olexiy Klimenko and Mykola Korotkikh. Other sources give 8 killed players. All the others were off-set and only one survived after the war: Makar Honcharenko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted July 27, 2002 Share Posted July 27, 2002 Now will there be a football stadium building in CMBB with mods for the various team strips?? [ July 27, 2002, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: Wicky ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCHRD Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 A website: 'Stalingrad-info.com' (Spelling?) has a group of pictures of the elevator, then and now, plus other good photos. It's a pretty good site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Q. Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 I remember fighting this fight in East Front 2 by Talonsoft. It was about 25-30 turns long and I can tell you it took everyone of those turns to get a minor victory. I had to move my tanks, engineers, & infantry units to the rear of the silo's. No matter how much artillery was used I couldn't get those russains out of the silo's, and if I recall there was hardly any damage to the silo's. However, with the use of smoke and using my infantry I waited until they had spent their action points up firing back at the infantry then I used my engineers an tanks to drive them out into the open where I was able to take over the silo's and finally defeat those red devil's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavlov Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Pavlov's house? The Red House? We are talking about heavily fortified structures - very heavily fortified. If CMBB has special rules for those, great, but I would guess typical tactics would require you to simply bypass them anyway. Not much point including them in a scenario that is supposed to be balanced - unless it is part of an operation, maybe, where you have to decide whether or not to assault it or simply bypass.FYI: I don't think there was anything special about the house, but the men in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 [ July 27, 2002, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shosties Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 Maybe not the best place to ask this question, but this thread has me curious. Being a midwesterner I've driven past my share of elevators and like the Stalingrad one they usually put the proverbial brick s***house to shame and look like ideal things to turn into fortresses when your enemy is at the gates. Given that it can't be cheap to build them like this, why is this done? The only reason I can think of would be to contain dust explosions. Any grog countryfolk out there care to enlighten us? [ July 28, 2002, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: Shosties4th ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpark Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 "See - CMBB should have "famous building" models in it. Reichstag, Brest Litovsk Citadel, the Grain Elevator..." Excellent idea, Mr. Dorosh. I floated an idea for "blank tile" building a ways back, and my prayers were answered as far as the factory buildings in CMBB. One hopes that these have a higher tolarence for punishment than the heavy bldngs in CMBB. I would love it if these buildings you mentioned could be modelled (I know, extra time and all...)-onion domes etc would really add to the terrain features, and the particular problems of Eastern front combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auggy Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 Given that it can't be cheap to build them like this, why is this done? The only reason I can think of would be to contain dust explosions. Any grog countryfolk out there care to enlighten us?I'm sort-of a grog coutnryfolk/farmer. We take our grain to jeffersonville on the ohio river and in indinapolis. Both places have grain bins like this. We even have one of these by some railroad tracks in my hometown. The reason for the rigid construction is that grain is well...heavy. A single buschel weighs in at 56-58 lbs! Our own grain bins where we hold our grain untill we truck it out aren't as strong as these manmoth concrete structures. They are made out of galvanized steel. And the hazard of grain dust explosions aren't very realistic at our level. But at these big grain silos they do happen. It is a powerful blast when it does take place and mames and kills workers. Thats why we see no smoking signs when we take our grain to the elevator. The main reason for the way it is built is so the silo won't get cracks in it and crumble under they weight of the corn,beans, and other grain. The one in the town where I live was closed beacause cracks were found. It is still used to drop a ball from on new years eve though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentorange Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 Originally posted by dizee: over here in hamburg there are still many of those airraid bunkers.they are so incredibly tough that they havnt been torn down after the war, and are now used for lotsa different stuff like the most impressive bunker in hamburg: the former air defence center.its a fkn huge concrete monster over at the heiligengeistfeld. with 4 big platforms on top of it, you can exactly see where the 4 big 128mm twin flakguns stood.its a mediacenter now with lots of advertise agencys, photographer studios and so on.its kinda strange feeling when ur walking up those steps, when u know that 60 years ago on the very same spot young ppl hurried upwards to man their guns, or when ur driving with the elevator wich was used to transport the heaps of ammo for the guns.Schiffer have got a book available about the Flak towers... part of the Schiffer military series, about 48 pages each and mainly photo essays with some supporting text, hell you know that already but the flak towers one is a bit unusual. Apparently the Austrian army still use the Vienna flak towers as depots and for storage etc www.schifferbooks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 There's an ex WW2 Brit AA tower built out in the Nth Sea somewhere that's been turned into an Internet "mini-state" by some enterprising folks. It was outside the 3-mile limit, but inside teh 12 mile limit (which apparently wasn't in place when it was occupied??) and the owners/operators don't obey British internet laws...although that's yet to be tested in court.......given how the place is built it could be interesting to enforce any laws!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Uber General Posted July 29, 2002 Share Posted July 29, 2002 Website for that is here http://www.sealandgov.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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